Teach me about trolling on the great lakes

[Monty Mikho]

So far I know I need a cannon electric downrigger. After doing some research it looks like the cannon portable will be the best fit.

How long of rods do I need and what should I look for in a reel?

How much weight is needed on the downrigger line?

Do I just look for different color spoons? Im looking for mostly salmon, trout and walleye. What colors are best?

What are the typical speeds people troll at? if different for each is there a baseline for each?

Anything else I need to know?

I'm looking to gear up this weekend so any help is greatly appreciated.

[2091]

In my opinion, the most important piece on the boat is an electronic item called 'Sub-Troll' (or an equivalent) - http://www.moorelectronics.com/fishing/fishing.html . It's like Racepak for trolling. It's a water speed and temp. sensor package that rides down at the ball and uses the down-rigger cable to transmit the signal back to the surface. Because of under water currents, the boat speed and the bait speed will be different. This under water speed is what determines the bait's action. For Salmon, most of the guys I know prefer a bait speed of 2.0 to 2.5mph and a water temp of 45 to 50. That's not to say you won't catch them any other speeds or temps but these seem to be the most reliable. Open water Steelhead are a whole other animal and Browns are even worse. I've never seen anyone who could specifically target and catch them on the Big Lakes - even though your ol' pal Mike caught 9 Steelhead (and one King) in four hours one evening last week. For Lakers, just drag whatever you want near the bottom and wait for what feels like dead weight on the end of the line. That'll be a 'grease ball'.

There are several other VERY productive alternative to down riggers. I suggest a good supply of 'Dipsy Divers' and 'Wally board' planer boards. In that same line of thinking, you should also familiarize yourself with 'lead core' and 'copper' line techniques. I've seen far more fish caught on something other then down rigger set-ups then on. It's just something to keep that in mind.

Get LOTS of spoons in various sizes and colors, LOTS of flasher / fly combos, and even though I've never personally seen anything caught on body baits (like J-Plugs), you might want to get a few of them too. I think blues and greens tend to do best but it just depends... If you're into something a little more exotic, my friend Ben likes to drag a 'meat rig' (cut sardines, herring, smelt, alewife, etc.) in his spread just to add a little 'stink'.

http://www.glangler.com has a decent fishing report message board that often provides good tips for what's hot and what's not for each of the Great Lakes.

But most importantly of all, ALWAYS have a radio tuned into the fishermen's channel (68 on L. Michigan) so you can hear how the others are doing and how they're doing it. :)

[2091]

Get reels with counters on them.

That'll be important for setting up stuff like Dipsy's or Lead Core not to mention to determine how far behind the ball you're setting your down rigger baits.

[Monty Mikho]

Thanks a ton, 2091. was actually going to call you today but I didn't want to bug you. Are you saying to skip the downriggers and look for copper/lead core line? If so that will save me a bundle and probably make it possible for me to fish right off the bat.

The boat has whats called a smart gage but Im guessing that is not like what you're talking about. I believe that just controls the motor speed and RPM? with some other information? Its a Mercury motor and also a 9.9 kicker.

Phuck it!! can I give you a call tomorrow? If yes what time is best?

[2091]

Sure... I'll be on the road by 5 (EST) so call me anytime after that...

I would not skip the riggers all together. I'm just saying there are cheaper and equally (or arguably more) effective ways of fishing without dropping a ton of bank and time into buying and installing down riggers. You'll already be spending enough on all the other stuff. If you're setting up the boat for it's first outing and time is of the essence, lead core and/or dipsy's are the quickest, easiest, and cheapest way to get in front of the fish.

Maybe make the down riggers a Winter project.

[deskjockey]

Hey Monty, lake erie, place called brest bay, over by fermi, is where my uncle and I always fished for walleye.

Had excellent luck using spoons that were red and white striped, like a candy cane.

We always jammed the radio and never had a problem catching some major fish.

Man I miss those times

[dbromo]

Monte have you tried to use plainers? Does anyone use them up there? They are the poor mans down rigger and just as effective!

[Monty Mikho]

Hey Monty, lake erie, place called brest bay, over by fermi, is where my uncle and I always fished for walleye.

Had excellent luck using spoons that were red and white striped, like a candy cane.

We always jammed the radio and never had a problem catching some major fish.

Man I miss those times

OK this is what I ended up with. I was told to hold off on the downriggers till next year.

Bass Pro Shop and Cabelas were a huge help I believe. They set me up with a book called Precision Trolling and a Trolling 101 book.

They set me up with Walleye trolling rods built for Dipsy Divers on 12# monofilament line. They said to tie around a 4-5 foot leader on the drivers and let the line out to the depth I wanted to fish at. They gave me a rubber band (dont know what its called) thing that goes between the spoon and line to give it some elasticity. They said its typical for walleye to be around 1-2 MPH. They gave me different color spoons and said to add a power bait on the back. Both places agreed on most things but some things were a little different so I bought everything needed from their recommendations...


2091, looking at the downriggers it seems I need a Cannon MAG10 electric with an 18# weight for Lake Michigan trolling for salmon? I did not buy any of that stuff but will for sure over the winter. I also bought a book on downrigger and will read some of it tonight.

[Monty Mikho]

Monte have you tried to use plainers? Does anyone use them up there? They are the poor mans down rigger and just as effective!


I was going to buy some but I guess the new ticket is this dipsy divers which are much smaller. I haven't use either so maybe someone else can fill us in on the difference if there is anything besides the size.

[bluestg2]

Monty

WE run about everything on our boat, I only have hand down riggers Just can't choke down the money for electric. but you are allowed to run three poles per person on the boat so we will run two riggers with a stacker then run anywhere from 2 to 4 dipsy's and have a long line going out the back with lead core or copper. we will run spoons, plugs and fly's depending on the time of year some times we have everything down. like stated earlier you need a fish hawk or a sub trol to really keep track of the tempiture break is. this year depending on the time of day we may be in 150 of water 120 down to on the same day 60 feet of water 30 down catching fish both places. I'm a believer you never have the right color of lure we just keep buying more hell a just bought a ton of stuff I didn't really need from a board member because it was a good deal. We really enjoy fishing the big lakes just interfers with racing some

[merr6267]

My step-dad trolls Lake Michigan every weekend in the summer. I imagine he has about as much money in his fishing rig as a lot of racers have in their rigs. (It still looks like hell, lol)
Like has been said, lots of lures, they seem to go day-to-day. They have so many weird names anymore. The lead core and dipsy diver stuff seems to do pretty well the last few years too. I know when I used to fish a lot when I was a kid it was always 4 double stacked down riggers, but anymore it seems he just runs 4 riggers with a single line on each and a bunch of leadcore and other oddball rigs.

The j-plugs always seemed to work best in the spring if I remember right, them and body baits, (rapala, Hot-n-tot, etc)

Lately, he's been pretty good. He seems to win/place in a few pro/am tournaments every summer. Tons of lures and rods though.

I think there are about 20 rod holders in the barn with a rod/reel for each and more that never leave the boat.

He usually takes a trip to Lake Erie in the early summer for walleye and generally uses planer boards to them. It gives you a really wide shallow spread of water.

For years he ran with 2 cheapy hand crank riggers mounted on a 2x8 board on the back of a ski boat. Still caught a ton of fish.

Good luck, I wish I knew more . . .

[JFontaine]

OK this is what I ended up with. I was told to hold off on the downriggers till next year.

Bass Pro Shop and Cabelas were a huge help I believe. They set me up with a book called Precision Trolling and a Trolling 101 book.

They set me up with Walleye trolling rods built for Dipsy Divers on 12# monofilament line. They said to tie around a 4-5 foot leader on the drivers and let the line out to the depth I wanted to fish at. They gave me a rubber band (dont know what its called) thing that goes between the spoon and line to give it some elasticity. They said its typical for walleye to be around 1-2 MPH. They gave me different color spoons and said to add a power bait on the back. Both places agreed on most things but some things were a little different so I bought everything needed from their recommendations...


2091, looking at the downriggers it seems I need a Cannon MAG10 electric with an 18# weight for Lake Michigan trolling for salmon? I did not buy any of that stuff but will for sure over the winter. I also bought a book on downrigger and will read some of it tonight.


I had your book ready to go to UPS today Monty!

[JFontaine]

The 2 most important items in your boat. Large sonar and GPS. Lowrance has good units but they cost. Dispeys work but are a pain in the ass. Watermelon dodgers with fleas worked best for us last year out of algoma/2 rivers area. twilight hours were best, dawn ok, daylight zero overcast was slow. Bring binocs and look for other boats, its crappy to do but when you are first starting out it helps. The best advice I can give you is to go the the local smaller tackle store and buy a decent amount and ask for some tips for the area. Usually they well point you in a good direction if you buy some stuff from them.

[rgearhead]

how big of a boat you get Monty?? i have been out on lake Michigan with may bass boat,lol ...not fun...like being in a washing machine when it kicked up out there ,,any pic,s ...

[JFontaine]

Planer boards, dipseys and downriggers. Planer boards out the sides to get a wide spread 10-30 feet diving, dipseys with a small angle out to get away from the boat a few yards and dodgers/flashers or shallow running lures to stay somewhat behine the dipsey without divint much more. downriggers off the stbd corners deep with flashers and fleas or flies. The objective is to get the entire water column covered.

[JFontaine]

Good point - #1 most important.. Marine band and antennae and flares.

[JFontaine]

Here are the jokers I have to fish with, notice the way I setup the rods. 19' Ranger.

http://myweb.cableone.net/jburrow/idiots_algoma.jpg

[rgearhead]

19' ^^ like a Cadillac ,,lol...heres my 17' cajun.....

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1131/1003462me2qu7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1003462me2qu7.jpg/1/w320.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img527/1003462me2qu7.jpg/1/)

[Monty Mikho]

I had your book ready to go to UPS today Monty!


Whoever wrote that book has to be richer than Bill Gates :smt118 Phuck they got me for $50 on that sucker!! They say its updated each year but the pages are replaceable with updates now.

[Monty Mikho]

The 2 most important items in your boat. Large sonar and GPS. Lowrance has good units but they cost. Dispeys work but are a pain in the ass. Watermelon dodgers with fleas worked best for us last year out of algoma/2 rivers area. twilight hours were best, dawn ok, daylight zero overcast was slow. Bring binocs and look for other boats, its crappy to do but when you are first starting out it helps. The best advice I can give you is to go the the local smaller tackle store and buy a decent amount and ask for some tips for the area. Usually they well point you in a good direction if you buy some stuff from them.


Thanks dude. I have a LMS-332 with GPS and I bought the map chip today for the layout. I just watched a DVD on walleye where they used planer boards. Looks like I need some of them as they seem to snap on and off pretty easy on any line without tying off. I have a sonar on the back of the boat and one in the trolling motor up front. Everything is Lowrance on the boat with some connections on the side as well? Not sure why but I assume the guy used a fish finder there as well?

[JFontaine]

You are going to find out fishing is as spendy as racing.

[JFontaine]

Thanks dude. I have a LMS-332 with GPS and I bought the map chip today for the layout. I just watched a DVD on walleye where they used planer boards. Looks like I need some of them as they seem to snap on and off pretty easy on any line without tying off. I have a sonar on the back of the boat and one in the trolling motor up front. Everything is Lowrance on the boat with some connections on the side as well? Not sure why but I assume the guy used a fish finder there as well?

Walleye spook away from the boat, planer boards get far enough out to be right where they scare off to often. Deadly on Erie and Michigan. Get the flags for them. Oh and use fireline with a long mono leader. Some oldskool guys still see more with flashers.

[Monty Mikho]

how big of a boat you get Monty?? i have been out on lake Michigan with may bass boat,lol ...not fun...like being in a washing machine when it kicked up out there ,,any pic,s ...


I picked up a 21 foot Starcraft Super Fisherman. We took it out when I went to pick it up and it ran really smooth over the waves. I was pretty impressed. With a full tank and 3 people it went 52MPH. It has a Merc 225 and a 9.9 kicker with a Minn Kota trolling motor up front. It seems like a cool setup but I have not fished off of it yet. I wanted to take it out to Erie Wednesday but I can't get anyone else to take the day off. I was gonna head out along but I noticed where I can launch the boat at it says no power loading. I am not sure but does this mean I need to roll in the trailer and wench it up? Or can I drive the trailer in and drive the boat on? Im new at this as you can see.

[JFontaine]

You can not power the boat onto the trailer. They told us the boat must not touch the trailer with the engine running. Winch it up only, unless nobody is looking.

[Monty Mikho]

Planer boards, dipseys and downriggers. Planer boards out the sides to get a wide spread 10-30 feet diving, dipseys with a small angle out to get away from the boat a few yards and dodgers/flashers or shallow running lures to stay somewhat behine the dipsey without divint much more. downriggers off the stbd corners deep with flashers and fleas or flies. The objective is to get the entire water column covered.


I just watched that DVD and they were using planer boards. The guy made a lot of since by saying he takes the water depth and divides by 4. Meaning at 20 feet of water he will run the out side planer boards at 5 ft 10ft and the ones behind the boat at 15 and 20 feet. I guess the shallow stay on the outside like you said when they are scared from the motor noise at shallow depths.

Keep teach dude!! Im learning as I go and really appreciate the help from everyone.

[JFontaine]

Whose video?

[Monty Mikho]

Good point - #1 most important.. Marine band and antennae and flares.


I got flares, fire extinguisher, CB (not sure the channel yet but I guess I can ask someone at the docks), night lights and life jackets. I believe thats everything I need to be legal on the water

[JFontaine]

http://www.walleyecentral.com/forums/index.php

"The" site for walleye fishing.

[Monty Mikho]

Here are the jokers I have to fish with, notice the way I setup the rods. 19' Ranger.

http://myweb.cableone.net/jburrow/idiots_algoma.jpg

I had rails already on the side and front. I bought some pole holders today with 8'6 and 9' rods. They said to run two out the back and 2 out the side. What the hell are the front mounts for?

[JFontaine]

I got flares, fire extinguisher, CB (not sure the channel yet but I guess I can ask someone at the docks), night lights and life jackets. I believe thats everything I need to be legal on the water

CB? Is it a marine band or just a CB? You need it to be a marine band and you better know the frequencies and etiquette or it will be like a first time racer at a NHRA national event. :)

[Monty Mikho]

You are going to find out fishing is as spendy as racing.


Maybe more.. thing is I dont need to rebuild the boat everytime I get back home :smt118:smt118

[JFontaine]

I had rails already on the side and front. I bought some pole holders today with 8'6 and 9' rods. They said to run two out the back and 2 out the side. What the hell are the front mounts for?

the bow rail mounts? For setting your rod down when you are casting or jigging or bottom bouncing.

[Monty Mikho]

Walleye spook away from the boat, planer boards get far enough out to be right where they scare off to often. Deadly on Erie and Michigan. Get the flags for them. Oh and use fireline with a long mono leader. Some oldskool guys still see more with flashers.


I hate that fire wire crap. Used it once on pike and they is no snapping the line when hung up.

[JFontaine]

Maybe more.. thing is I dont need to rebuild the boat everytime I get back home :smt118:smt118

the 225 opti is a pretty tough unit, just keep oil in the tank over 50% and get it serviced and winterized every year.

[Monty Mikho]

You can not power the boat onto the trailer. They told us the boat must not touch the trailer with the engine running. Winch it up only, unless nobody is looking.

Short of walking into the water how do you get the hook from the wench onto the front? So I will need to dock it pretty close Im guessing.. walk into the water and hook it up? I know this is silly but its gonna be getting cold soon and I dont feel like walking into ice water.. :p

[JFontaine]

I hate that fire wire crap. Used it once on pike and they is no snapping the line when hung up.

You need it trolling. Wait till you snap off a few 10+ walleyes on mono. No pros troll with mono for walleye or large game fish.

[Monty Mikho]

the 225 opti is a pretty tough unit, just keep oil in the tank over 50% and get it serviced and winterized every year.


Its a Verado 4 stroke. The 9.9 is 4 stroke also. Reason is the 4 strokes has electronic throttle and I can dial in the speed I want to troll with a push of the button. It has smart gages on it to make things easy for an idiot like me.

[JFontaine]

Short of walking into the water how do you get the hook from the wench onto the front? So I will need to dock it pretty close Im guessing.. walk into the water and hook it up? I know this is silly but its gonna be getting cold soon and I dont feel like walking into ice water.. :p

Dock it and push it back out with a long rope, walk to the trailer and pull it on as far as possible. I put the trailer in pretty far when I have to do it. Or depending on where you are slow coast onto it and kill the motor right as you get almost to the trailer. They sometimes dont like that though. The powerloading ban is to keep from pilling up the base of the ramp and making a big deposit behind the propwash.

[JFontaine]

Ohhh Verados are nice! But suck a ton of fuel. Sweet motor though. They came out after I quit.

[Monty Mikho]

Whose video?

The first one is

In-Fisherman 21st Century Walleye Strategies

Second is

In-Fisherman Precision Walleye Patterns (have not watched it yet)

Books are

Precision Trolling
Downrigger Fishing Techniques

[Monty Mikho]

CB? Is it a marine band or just a CB? You need it to be a marine band and you better know the frequencies and etiquette or it will be like a first time racer at a NHRA national event. :)


LOL whatever they are called. It was already on the boat. All I could hear from the house was the weather channel and 911 came when I pressed the distress button :smt118:smt118:smt118

[Monty Mikho]

the bow rail mounts? For setting your rod down when you are casting or jigging or bottom bouncing.


OK that make sense. Just seems like over kill to have them rails up there. But then Im used to fishing from a 12 foot boat.. LOL

[JFontaine]

Good stuff. I am looking for my walleye bible. I will send it if I find it.

[Monty Mikho]

the 225 opti is a pretty tough unit, just keep oil in the tank over 50% and get it serviced and winterized every year.


All I know is you cannot hear that phuckin thing when trolling. The 9.9 is a different story. Im thinking I may use the 225 to troll with at first till I get the hang of things then use the kicker to save some gas on the lake and make a day of it

[JFontaine]

OK that make sense. Just seems like over kill to have them rails up there. But then Im used to fishing from a 12 foot boat.. LOL

We do a lot of shoreline contour trolling with live bait at slow speeds, they work well for the guy running the electric up front. Do you have a bowmount motor?

[JFontaine]

All I know is you cannot hear that phuckin thing when trolling. The 9.9 is a different story. Im thinking I may use the 225 to troll with at first till I get the hang of things then use the kicker to save some gas on the lake and make a day of it
Use your kicker, its what it is for!

[Monty Mikho]

You need it trolling. Wait till you snap off a few 10+ walleyes on mono. No pros troll with mono for walleye or large game fish.


PHUCK!!! I have 4 reels it looks like I need to reline? So you use spider wire for backing and mono for a leader? How long of a leader? The guys on the video I thought said they were using fluorocarbon 20# for backing. 10-14# for leader and a steal leader when in the shallows in case a muskie gets on.

[Monty Mikho]

Dock it and push it back out with a long rope, walk to the trailer and pull it on as far as possible. I put the trailer in pretty far when I have to do it. Or depending on where you are slow coast onto it and kill the motor right as you get almost to the trailer. They sometimes dont like that though. The powerloading ban is to keep from pilling up the base of the ramp and making a big deposit behind the propwash.

Cool that make sense.. I will do that. :supz::supz::supz:

[Monty Mikho]

We do a lot of shoreline contour trolling with live bait at slow speeds, they work well for the guy running the electric up front. Do you have a bowmount motor?


Yeah its a Minn Kota (something) V2 with a built in sonar. I bought the adaptor cable for the Lowrance today and still need to get a unit for the front. They said to just get a fish finder and not to worry about the GPS on that unit as the main unit already has a GPS. Does that seem true?

[Monty Mikho]

Use your kicker, its what it is for!

I figured it was louder so I would use the bigger motor? Or does it not make that much of a difference?

[JFontaine]

PHUCK!!! I have 4 reels it looks like I need to reline? So you use spider wire for backing and mono for a leader? How long of a leader? The guys on the video I thought said they were using fluorocarbon 20# for backing. 10-14# for leader and a steal leader when in the shallows in case a muskie gets on.

It depends on what you are fishing for. Spiderwire sucks switch to firewire. Back with mono. Leader size and length depends on a lot of things.

I found the book Walleye Wisdom. Its the best ever made and pretty old. I will get it in the mail.

[Monty Mikho]

It depends on what you are fishing for. Spiderwire sucks switch to firewire. Back with mono. Leader size and length depends on a lot of things.

I found the book Walleye Wisdom. Its the best ever made and pretty old. I will get it in the mail.


PHUCK.. is spider wire and firewire different? The stuff I used in the past was like dental floss. The shit sucked and discolored quick. It was very visible when cast fishing. Is that the same stuff?

[JFontaine]

Yeah its a Minn Kota (something) V2 with a built in sonar. I bought the adaptor cable for the Lowrance today and still need to get a unit for the front. They said to just get a fish finder and not to worry about the GPS on that unit as the main unit already has a GPS. Does that seem true?

Unless you are fishing structure and working up front a lot I wouldnt worry about it. Some lakes we fish for walleye have very tight contours and once you do the work and run it once with the gps creating thr trail you can fish it in both directions much easier just by following the old trail. Punch in every location where you get a fish so you can see the trends.

[JFontaine]

PHUCK.. is spider wire and firewire different? The stuff I used in the past was like dental floss. The shit sucked and discolored quick. It was very visible when cast fishing. Is that the same stuff?

Fire isnt as sticky as spider. We cast all day with it with very light jigs. Its almost like flysishing sometimes though. I was talking mostly about trolling setups. A lot of bass guys and walleye guys will only cast into shallow water with mono. But all troll with firewire or a similar brand.

[JFontaine]

I figured it was louder so I would use the bigger motor? Or does it not make that much of a difference?

It will steer different, are they linked together with a steering bar?

[Monty Mikho]

Unless you are fishing structure and working up front a lot I wouldnt worry about it. Some lakes we fish for walleye have very tight contours and once you do the work and run it once with the gps creating thr trail you can fish it in both directions much easier just by following the old trail. Punch in every location where you get a fish so you can see the trends.

Cool. The guy at Cabelas showed me a ton of things on the unit (new ones are LMS-5xx) but he said they were pretty much the same. He said to just keep playing with it in the drive way to get used to us. He said there are 1000's of options but only around 10-20 I'll ever keep using like paths, points, marking, speed, depth, things like that

[Monty Mikho]

Fire isnt as sticky as spider. We cast all day with it with very light jigs. Its almost like flysishing sometimes though. I was talking mostly about trolling setups. A lot of bass guys and walleye guys will only cast into shallow water with mono. But all troll with firewire or a similar brand.

Use same test? Im have 12# right now (all mono tho)

[JFontaine]

I gotta fly. PM me your address again I cleaned out my PM box.

[Monty Mikho]

It will steer different, are they linked together with a steering bar?


Yes they are paired to the steering. Both have trim on two different levers by the drivers seat. I doubt I need to ever trim the small motor? Figured that was more for pulling up when coming to shore or trailering?

[Monty Mikho]

BTW it has power (hydraulic/electric) steering that will keep the path the steering is left at. It does steer with ease.

[Monty Mikho]

I gotta fly. PM me your address again I cleaned out my PM box.


Cool me to.. I will PM you right now

[JFontaine]

Use same test? Im have 12# right now (all mono tho)

We used a lot of 12 fireline. I think cabelas has a chart the diameter/test is a lot different. Smaller diameter and stronger.

[rgearhead]

I picked up a 21 foot Starcraft Super Fisherman. We took it out when I went to pick it up and it ran really smooth over the waves. I was pretty impressed. With a full tank and 3 people it went 52MPH. It has a Merc 225 and a 9.9 kicker with a Minn Kota trolling motor up front. It seems like a cool setup but I have not fished off of it yet. I wanted to take it out to Erie Wednesday but I can't get anyone else to take the day off. I was gonna head out along but I noticed where I can launch the boat at it says no power loading. I am not sure but does this mean I need to roll in the trailer and wench it up? Or can I drive the trailer in and drive the boat on? Im new at this as you can see.

sounds real good...
thats faster than i would have thought with full tank of gas and 3 people,, fastest i have had my dingie with Merc 150 full tank of gas and just me was just a tic over 60.. with allot less fuel an pretty calm lake mine should run mid to upper 60s,,lol-(bench race boats...)
good luck with it Monty and post up some pic,s when you take some , cool to see...

i might head up to our cottage on lake Schafer next few weeks and to drop mine back in need to burn off allot of 2 year old fuel before winter..

[JFontaine]

Try it on a day with light chop. Boats are slower in flat water. Speedos dont count! GPS speed only. :) Verados make a pile of power and can run a pretty pitchy prop.

[rgearhead]

ya , heard that on boat speed-Os being way off ...i was using my GPS and speed-o is a good bit off...

where do u boat Fontaine??? i just putt around now on lake Schafer in Indiana,,it's small lake like 1,400 acres..they do have alot of bass tournaments there during the summer ..no big shots though I'm sure ...this is the first summer i have had my boat on the lake in 3 summers ,,just to damn busy ,,Bob...

[JFontaine]

I fished walleye mostly in minnesota and north dakota but have fished all all over the country. I sold my boat right before gas started to climb. I was burned out on fishing. I fished a lot around algoma and manitowoc.

[rgearhead]

that's cool ...just wish i had more time.. i have a 2 1/2 year old and another 1 on the way December 23 ..lol , so wont be any time soon...just glad all my hobby's are paid for just sitting...

[MikeC]

http://image14.webshots.com/14/5/37/78/172453778LXZJvd_fs.jpg

Came here for drag racing and saw this thread!
Here is a picture of my previous rig, hard to have both hobbies, drag racing and fishing!:)

[uf63]

Fished Door county for 20 years for Salomon and browns. Love the down-riggers and j-Plugs. Get as much tec in your boat as you can, 2091 is right on with the temp, depth and speed very important. As much fun fishing as you can get when you tie into the big boys down 100' and 100 yards back.

[protruck70]

Monty

Jmo- But the dipsy divers are a fucking pain and they work like a limp dick. They will eventually find their way to the bottom of your box and never be seen again..lol

I would poney up for (2) down riggers and invest in some balls and some stacker/releases and (2) planer boards. 300 feet of cable if you want to fish the big lake in early/summr season where thre deep and shallow up as season progress's

( dude. make your balls out of 3" round stock, weld a lifting eye on top and a vertical fin on back of them and paint them black)...keep spares you will loose some.

Run the 2 down rigger off the back (2) rods off each rigger set stagger at diff depts with the stacker/releases. Wth a total of 4 rods off the back boat

Run your planer boards off the sides w/1 rod each until you can finish purchasing you last (2) riggers next year with outriggers off the side when you can run an additional 4 rods.

Then you can run "flat lines" and flys off the surface off the back. to fill your line/water capacity depending on # of people fishing

Stacker/relase = http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_8273_225014003_225000000_225014000_225-14-3 ..my favorite ones.

Down riggers = Whatever you prefrence if ya got the cash you will appreciate the electric specially when you fishing deep for lakers.coho, rainbow or before the chinnies move in shallow or when you get a "fire drill" and fish on everywhere.

Purchase some spare line, crimps and crimpers and weight trminators ( swivels) and keep it in the boat

Rods = Depends I have all downrigger rods for short to long tip and from md heavy to light. The md heavy I use in the big lake and the lite stuff I use for flat lines and trolling in the in-land lakes.

Personally I think the Penn reels /ugly stick combo's are hard to beat price /waranty

Tackle =

When salmon/lakers/coho/chinnies ..you can never have enough flashers in diff size/colors and lots of J-plugs in size/color and the same with fly's. The whole idea is have a varity to get an idea of whats working. 1.5-3 mph depnding weather/conditions/temp

Walleys/northrn/musky - spoons and stick baits. Jointed sticks are my favorite. The key here is find out what the "forage" is in the area your fishing and gear up. I have a little of everything to cover the typical baitfish/forage in this area/location.Presentation speed varies from wether/temp slower as it gets colder. I have little luck in colder weather trolling. I either "back troll" or I use a slow presntation and soak a live bait covering a lot of area deep.


SAFETY .. personally I would never go on the big lake without GPS and a HF radio not even in fair weather much less winter weather.

Alway fucking always..... Keep a knife/tool on your belt for easy acsess . I am not asking, I am telling you ..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If ya get a "screamer" where you reel is screaming and ripping line off like fucking crazy.......keeps hands back and cut it loose. Not worth saving a bait, ask me how I know ?

[Monty Mikho]

Update: I ended up buying 3 Cannons and 2 Big Jons. Don't ask but I got them for prices I couldn't pass up. 1 is a Cannon Mag 10 with PIC and Auto Stop. 2 are Big Jon Captain Pak without PIC or AS. 2 are Cannon Digi-Troll IV with PIC and AS along with optional sensor and a few other accessories. I heard a lot of good things about Big Jon's service and heard a few bad things about Cannons service. So I figured test them both. Cannon is supposed to be releasing a new speed/temp sensor for downriggers so the older models should drop in price some. Looking at getting one. 2091 recommended a speed/temp sensor and Cannon seems to have the nicest one.

My question : I know we covered releases but wanted to know if opinions have changed. I have a couple rubber band releases that came with the Big Jon's and found a few Cannon adjustable releases at good prices. The Cannon stacker release looks nice but wanted an opinion on that also. Im using braided line on my rods with fluorocarbon leaders. I want to mostly pull spoons, bait holders, flies and J-plugs. Also what are your opinions on a Black's and Big Jon line wrap type releases?

[Mark @ Meridian Tool]

Monty
If ya get a "screamer" where you reel is screaming and ripping line off like fucking crazy.......keeps hands back and cut it loose. Not worth saving a bait, ask me how I know ?

Catch you a shipwreck or one of those sweet Indian nets?

[protruck70]

Monty

I use the adjustable line wraps for flashers/J-plugs, spoons, baits when on the big lake for Coho, chin's and lakers. They got a big enough bite that I never had a problem. If your getting false release you can adjust for it.

When I was on the inland lakes hunting Muskies/Walleys I used the liter clamp releases, they were recommended when trolling slower speeds and less aggresive and slower lighter bite.

My guess would be the rubber band release might have the same idea of the clamp for a lighter release ?

Nothing factual here just some of the reccomendations I got from others at the time.

[Monty Mikho]

Thanks Pro. I read about the releases and it seems most people like the Blacks type of releases. http://www.lakemichiganangler.com/store/Blacks_Releases_for_Downriggers__Outriggers__and_K ites.htm

The rubber band releases are pretty simple idea. Here is a link to the one I have. http://www.bigjon.com/store/list.asp?SubTypeID=9&ProductID=158

I bought a bunch of flashes but still trying to learn about them. Does the flashes physically attaching to your fishing line with a 4-6 foot leader behind? Wont the flasher pull on the line too hard and make it next to impossible to put a release on it? Or does the flasher not attach to the fishing line at all?

I got some 12" fish shaped flashers and some 8" triangle type flashers in a ton of different colors. I read I needed red, green and blue colored ones for Lake Michigan. I also got some glow in the dark ones.

[Monty Mikho]

Also when you stack lines how far apart are they stacked?

[JFontaine]

Blacks are the only release worth buying.

[Monty Mikho]

Blacks are the only release worth buying.


Thats what Im leaning towards and will most likely get. I tried the Cannon adjustable and they are a pain in the ass to use. Maybe its just me. Big Jon has a release based on the same type of concept but it seems the reviews on them weren't as good.

[protruck70]

Monty - This is pretty basic but it is a good read, check out the J-plug trolling part. Pay atten to the diff betwenn dodgers and flashers also.

The falsher/dodger attaches to your line itself with a good ballbearing swivel and then you attach you leader off the flasher ( wich usually has another swivel off the back side already) to your j-plug or whatever your bait is.

Your line is wraped around the barrel of your release and at whatever length desired. You lead your bait out to the desired trailng length then wrap/set the realease and then dive your ball to the desired depth of course.

As far as the tension of the releas you can check by hand and then if your getting false release you can tighten and adjust according to your bait it is a fell and go thing.

Stackers.. you got two options how far each line/bait trails and how deep each is set. Example you can set one 150" deep trailing 70 yards out and you can set the second at 75' deep and trail it at 50 yds. Of coarse you will need two pole holders on one downrigger or near when stacking.

[protruck70]

oops here it is...http://great-lakes.org/reviews/review-04-12-04.html#J-Plug_Trolling

I use the Big J's release and their stacker, I like the snap the barell concept. Lead the line out wrap it and snap it and your done.

[JFontaine]

Stagger everything so you can get all of the water column then tune to where the fish are when you graph them or start hooking them. Salmon generally come in late afternoon and go back out around dawn. Our best fishing has always been sunset and sunrise. Gotta go out a ways during the day to find them usually. Look for other clusters of boats and watch what depth they are moving during certain times of the day. You may be able to see your cannonballs on the graph if you have a good HDS or equal unit. Flashers generally twirl while dodgers dart around, thus making your fly or whatever is tied to it move in some pretty wild motions. Have you hooked a big king yet?

[Monty Mikho]

oops here it is...http://great-lakes.org/reviews/review-04-12-04.html#J-Plug_Trolling

I use the Big J's release and their stacker, I like the snap the barell concept. Lead the line out wrap it and snap it and your done.


That's a good read. How much extra pull does a flasher have on the pole? Will a 5# or so release be enough?

I went to Gander Mountain yesterday and looked at the different releases and how they work. The Big Jon releases look pretty neat but I think I will go with the Blacks. The concept between the two is a little different. I just like simple and that seems to be the Blacks. Looks like the Big Jon allows for finer adjustments tho. The pinch type are out. I keep thinking about the releases on my planer boards and they are a pain in the add with little adjustment. The line seems to slid out of them if they are not set just right at the right position on the pad. I surely don't want false released at 60-100 feet down.

Black's releases : How are these set? Im guessing I can take my fish scale and pull on the release pin to see how much pull it takes to release? What would be the release pressure using a 12" flasher and say a bait holder (large size with Herring)? I'm sure this depends on trolling speeds as well?

[Monty Mikho]

Stagger everything so you can get all of the water column then tune to where the fish are when you graph them or start hooking them. Salmon generally come in late afternoon and go back out around dawn. Our best fishing has always been sunset and sunrise. Gotta go out a ways during the day to find them usually. Look for other clusters of boats and watch what depth they are moving during certain times of the day. You may be able to see your cannonballs on the graph if you have a good HDS or equal unit. Flashers generally twirl while dodgers dart around, thus making your fly or whatever is tied to it move in some pretty wild motions. Have you hooked a big king yet?

I looked at the blacks releases and seen the one that has no eyelets on it. Im assuming this gets threaded on the main cable of the downrigger and slides up and down the cable to your set trolling depth. I would assume you use a pinch type release to hold it in place with a cable running off it? That seems to be the quickest modification I can make to keep it where I want.

[JFontaine]

Yep. I dont like stacking much though. I prefer to run 4 downriggers (2 out the sides and 2 out the back), 2 dipsey divers (setting them to plane outboard to cover more area port and stbd at different depths), one top line out the back centered and planer boards out the sides. It cuts a wide swath and a lot of depths.


http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/s7_017675_imageset_01?$main-Medium$

[Monty Mikho]

I ended up with Black's releases with the cable to leave my weight in the water on the bottom and Roemer releases for the stack. They seem very simple to use. I appreciate the help guys.

[protruck70]

Monty make sure you make yourslef a cable repair kit box . Put some crimpers and crimps and some extra swivels/ clips and downrigger hardware in it. And keep a couple extra down rigger balls around.

I ran 4 down rigger off the back, stacked and ran two line off each down rig and then flat lined off the outside pole holders

I hate dipsy and screwing with boards...thats just me tho


BTW... I take it you be building a down rigger board for removal ???

[Monty Mikho]

Monty make sure you make yourslef a cable repair kit box . Put some crimpers and crimps and some extra swivels/ clips and downrigger hardware in it. And keep a couple extra down rigger balls around.

I ran 4 down rigger off the back, stacked and ran two line off each down rig and then flat lined off the outside pole holders

I hate dipsy and screwing with boards...thats just me tho


BTW... I take it you be building a down rigger board for removal ???

I have a cannon cable kit. It includes 6 units. I ordered 6 balls. I am going to use 4 and leave the other 2 for spares. As far as a board? I have traxstech rails on the boat. When I was surfing for some deals I found some Cannon swivel base pedestal mounts for $19.95 each. Yes that isn't a typo. I ordered 4 to see if they would ship and they did. So I bought the other 5 they had in stock and 5 fixed base units. I have swivel mounts for the cannons and big jons so I can sell all the swivel pedestals on e-bay. They are all new units that price for $119.95 when on sale :-D:-D . I guess someone made a mistake on the price yet they shipped them anyway. These can be quickly removed and installed.

I have 4 planer boards and 8 dipseys. I didn't care for them much but then again I am pretty lazy.. :p:p

[Brad54]

I got flares, fire extinguisher, CB (not sure the channel yet but I guess I can ask someone at the docks), night lights and life jackets. I believe thats everything I need to be legal on the water

I can't contribute a whole lot... when I was a kid (you and I PM'd about this), the guy who took us out on Lake Michigan used hand-crank down-riggers... I think he had 4 of them, two on the sides, two off the back. Seems like they might have been double-rigged to the poles. I believe he always ran 6 poles: one each side, four off the back. Seems to me they used Dipsy Divers back then (20 years ago) as well, so I don't think those are "new." Maybe re-discovered?

They had CB radio, and Marine Band. Get a marine band, as that's what all the serious fisherman are going to have. Turn it on, keep it running, and listen to the chatter. You'll be able to figure out what colors they're hitting, and what depths they're at on a day-to-day basis. And like here, you'll end up "knowing" people without ever meeting them.

That'll save you a lot of money over buying the expensive equipment to find out temps, etc.

Remember, you're asking a lot of us here on the website... there will be fishing reports on certain radio stations in the mornings, websites, and of course, it's hard to beat the word down on the docks.

-Brad

[Monty Mikho]

I can't contribute a whole lot... when I was a kid (you and I PM'd about this), the guy who took us out on Lake Michigan used hand-crank down-riggers... I think he had 4 of them, two on the sides, two off the back. Seems like they might have been double-rigged to the poles. I believe he always ran 6 poles: one each side, four off the back. Seems to me they used Dipsy Divers back then (20 years ago) as well, so I don't think those are "new." Maybe re-discovered?

They had CB radio, and Marine Band. Get a marine band, as that's what all the serious fisherman are going to have. Turn it on, keep it running, and listen to the chatter. You'll be able to figure out what colors they're hitting, and what depths they're at on a day-to-day basis. And like here, you'll end up "knowing" people without ever meeting them.

That'll save you a lot of money over buying the expensive equipment to find out temps, etc.

Remember, you're asking a lot of us here on the website... there will be fishing reports on certain radio stations in the mornings, websites, and of course, it's hard to beat the word down on the docks.

-Brad

I have a marine radio on the boat. The charter captains seem to keep things quiet over the radio anymore. They also use "code" names for locations. I am not familiar with Lake Michigan at all and do not know what the spots are. The areas are marked on my GPS yet people on the radio seem to use other names when calling them out. I know this is how it works on Erie and Saginaw Bay but I pretty much know the spots there by name and the "code" names. Its going to take some time for sure. Learning is 1/2 the fun I guess. For now I will stick with talking to people here, at the boat launch and local tackle shops. I will stick with the other boats and mark spots the first few times out. I have a full year to learn more I guess. Right now we are hitting the river as the salmon are running in. Thanks to all for the help...

[JFontaine]

I have a marine radio on the boat. The charter captains seem to keep things quiet over the radio anymore. They also use "code" names for locations. I am not familiar with Lake Michigan at all and do not know what the spots are. The areas are marked on my GPS yet people on the radio seem to use other names when calling them out. I know this is how it works on Erie and Saginaw Bay but I pretty much know the spots there by name and the "code" names. Its going to take some time for sure. Learning is 1/2 the fun I guess. For now I will stick with talking to people here, at the boat launch and local tackle shops. I will stick with the other boats and mark spots the first few times out. I have a full year to learn more I guess. Right now we are hitting the river as the salmon are running in. Thanks to all for the help...

We did this too mostly when prefishing tournaments, all of the guys in our "group" have a list of locations for each lake, we use the common names in the first column and a corresponding name and gps location in the second. So if someone in our group says they are killing them at "Doc Hagens", we look at the list and see they are really at "Victors Wreck". It sends the competition to the wrong spot. A lot of people use this system if a cell network is not available. If your MB has a scan function try that, lots use different frequencies based on the hour, day, or whatever they decided in advance.

[protruck70]

Hang out at the closest bar buy them a drink and be their buddy you will be on their call list in no time.:-D

[JFontaine]

Hang out at the closest bar buy them a drink and be their buddy you will be on their call list in no time.:-D
100% true.

We were in a little bait store in Algoma and asked the guy behind the counter where to find some kings, he said he hadnt heard anything lately. We bought a few hundred bucks worth of dodgers, flashers, and other stuff. After he rung us up he pulled out a notepad and started giving us gps coordinates. The old wrinkly sunburned guy in the small local bar around 9:30pm is usually a petty good source for some decent information if you buy him a few rounds too.

[Chairmanx]

Go to www.offshoretackle.com and look at some of the videos showing different ways of using our products for trolling.