Battery question

[Rick_R]

Ok this is not for a race car but for my cruise car, you know the one that gets started about a dozen times year. I know just sitting around is death to lead acid battery. I have 3 that need changing right now. They are all less than 4 years old but are unreliable now. what should I use, the standard walmart (Johnson Controls) battery or will a AGM take the long idle times better? I know enough about batteries to know I need help:cool:. I hate buying batteries every year I seem to buy a couple, I guess I need to some cars, but i like them all and last time I sold one I bought 2 more the next month.
Note the batteries I'm replacing this year all reside in a factory installed box in the passenger compartment ala corvette so gas is an issue

[Sparky]

I think this question would be best suited for Ray.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

I called a battery tech guy I know, just want to confirm something before I open my mouth. :) Should have an answer by tomorrow.

[Sparky]

Aww c'mon Ray, I thought I was throwing one up your alley??

[RRRAAAYYY2]

This is one of those I know the answer in certain situations. i.e. If we were talking about shelf life, AGM's have a lot longer shelf life than wet cells. But in a car there is typically parasitic draws, so the battery is always being flattened. Then upon start up it is getting recharged at a higher rate. There are large batteries that can sit in a state of discharge (gel), but they at the same time do not like releasing lots of energy quickly. So they won't work well in a starting application. Further they really won't like the high rate of recharge either.
Most likely Rick is going to want an Oddessy as they take this kind of abuse the best. They are an AGM and a bit better than the Deka Intimidator, though the Intimidator is the best value (good quality, great price). Kind of like comparing Rolls to Cadilacs. (Optimas or anything else manufactured by Johnson Controls is a Yugo) A battery maintenance charger would work well in this situation as well. If he uses a charger, then he could probably just use a wet cell as well.

I will post an offical answer tomorrow though. :)

[Rick_R]

I don't like leaving battery chargers on cars unattended, I Know they are automatic, But I have seen a failure that caused a fire. Since the cars are all stored in the back shop along with lots of "stuff" that cannot be easily replaced, I dont like power going to them. I would prefer to buy a couple of batteries every year than to replace everything, including my business. I should of asked ray this question when I saw him last 2 weeks ago. I knew he did lots of battery testing with his bike, but sulfation wasn't the problem he was trying to solve. ray if you want to consult feel free to call, 888-225-8648, I should be able to get to the phone from 9-12 and 3-4.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Here is the answer I got, battery's constructed with calcium-calcium plates will survive UPTO 4 months between charges (personally would keep to less than a month). Though they won't like it. Deka/East Penn and Delphi batteries are the only true calcium-calcium batteries that I know of. And since Johnson Controls bought Delphi, that might be changing too.
Johnson Controls owns Interstate and Exide (and optima) which both have a calcium battery. The only thing is it is one calcium plate and one low antomony plate. Kind of a hybird. These should not be charged at a rate over 14.4 and will not like sitting for periods of time. I think this is where your porblem came from.
An AGM battery will do even better than a calcium/calcium battery, though you have to keep the recharge rate in the 14.4-14.6 (can push to 14.7 volts) range. So to go to the AGM, you might have to consider updating the alternator as well.
So my thought is to go with a EastPenn/Deka 734/78DP. They also have the advantage of the plates are placed in epoxy at the bottom of the battery. So they are supported top and bottom, instead of just hanging, like they are in most batteries. We have replaced lots of Optima's in race cars with these, and they are doing really well. One car was three years ago, he went through 3 red tops to mid season. So the Deka is a good battery and about half the price of an AGM.

[Rick_R]

Thanks for the answers sparky and ray and the call ray, I think I'll do an intimidator this year for one car, I'll probably only drive one this year anyways, What is the price differental from intimidator to an AGM, these cars have old style fomoco alts on them, only 60 amp. I will have you do a new alt for the one I will need more power for. will the AGM be OK with the old style alt with seperate regulator, or will I just need an adjustable regulator. It's not that I'm playing dumb, or cheep, I just want to do it right the first time instead of stumbling through like usual.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

The Intimidator is an AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) battery. It is recommended to charge them at no higher voltage than 14.6 . Though I know there is some give in that figure. Charging it higher will take some life out of it. But if you are talking taking 3 years out of a battery that should last 6 years, and then only using here and there, you probably are going to hurt it some other way first, than over charging it. Though changing the regulator or alternator is recommended. I would check you system voltage first though, and if it is 14.7 maybe 14.8 or lower, not worry too much about it.

With that said I don't know that I would be hitting it with 15volts. There is an adjustable regulator for externally regulated Fords. You can also get a Ford mount 3G (120amp-250amps) with a lower voltage setting, 14.4 I think.

[Rick_R]

I'm pulling the car out next week to clean it up and get started for the cruise season so I'll check the charge voltage then. If'n my memory is correct it was someplace around 13.8 last time i checked.
BTW ray I got your parts, you should have them back next week, they look fine, but aren't very light :cool:

[RRRAAAYYY2]

I thought about getting them made out of an aluminum alloy, but the barrels themselves would have been a several hundred dollars for the raw material, without any machining. And there was also a concern that the aluminum would not react the same way to the magnetism as the steel. This is more what stopped than anything.

With my style of motors the magnet field actually rotates around the housing, another reason why the motors are so powerful. Would you believe that those little motors are going to produce in excess of 1000ftlbs of torque, and 80hp. Even more once you are done doing your thing to them.