Some Advice...

[trink408]

So I thought I was really starting to figure some things out, then I pull out #1 plug after a nitrous pass and the electrode is gone...

All the other plugs are intact, but I can't find the timing marks or fuel rings on them. They look pretty white.

The pass felt great till the top end, starting breaking up a little and I got off it. Sucks cause I think I was on track for my illusive 8 second pass.

So how bad is it if I melted the electrode off, what are the chances its minor?

I plan to do a good leak down test and a compression test, any other things I should test?

It Never Ends...

[Tom McDunnah]

Maybe you could share your tune-up,then we can go from there N/F,timing,and fuel pressure,also retard?

[trink408]

Sure,

410 sbf
35 degrees total timing
pulling out 10.5 degrees for 225 shot
Wilson Plate system
6.75psi flowing fuel pressure
950lbs bottle pressure
Running on c16
Motor has about 13:1 compression
NGK -9 plugs, gapped at .030
a/f was around 10.3 on the big end

[Ed-vancedEngines]

When the A/F was rich it had probably already started laying down becuse of the plugs.

Tom runs a similar plate so he will give you better ideas. Besides that I am not a nirous tuner and know very little of nothing about it.. I build them don't tune them.

Ed

[hiredgun93]

I run that plate also and my fuel pressure was good at 7psi with a pump gas motor and NGK#9's gapped at .030. I think you should set your fuel pressure to 7-7.25 and possib;y put NGK#10's in it being your compression is up there. Fuel is horsepower, Add some and see what happens. My plugs almost had no color on them when my fuel pressure was at 7psi with C-16.

[BJCRAZYZ]

Sure,

410 sbf
35 degrees total timing
pulling out 10.5 degrees for 225 shot
Wilson Plate system
6.75psi flowing fuel pressure
950lbs bottle pressure
Running on c16
Motor has about 13:1 compression
NGK -9 plugs, gapped at .030
a/f was around 10.3 on the big end
nipping the strap on #1 before the others will be common on a small block ford with a plate system, because of the shitty distribution
if you had no fuelring, your probably to lean, but you should still have some kind of heat mark!!
i ran a 427 tfs-r headed motor with a fogger, the corner cylinders were always leaner, do you have a ignition box that allows individual cylinder timining adjustments to be made?? if so i would fatten it up and work it back down about 1/10 of a pound at a time untill the plug has a good clean read with the proper fuel ring, while at the same time pulling a little additional timing from the cylinders that are reading warmer than the others
i am not a big fan of plate systems on a small block fords, even with a boat load of money thrown into the intake, they still have poor distribution
hope this helps...

p.s. also, not to knock your a/f meter, but i wouldnt try to tune your nitrous system with it, its not reading individual cylinder, its reading everything as a whole, trust your plugs they dont lie!!!

[trink408]

nipping the strap on #1 before the others will be common on a small block ford with a plate system, because of the shitty distribution
if you had no fuelring, your probably to lean, but you should still have some kind of heat mark on the strap!!
i ran a 427 tfs-r headed motor with a fogger, the corner cylinders were always leaner, do you have a ignition box that allows individual cylinder timining adjustments to be made?? if so i would fatten it up and work it back down about 1/10 of a pound at a time untill the plug has a good clean read with the proper fuel ring, while at the same time pulling a little additional timing from the cylinders that are reading warmer than the others
i am not a big fan of plate systems on a small block fords, even with a boat load of money thrown into the intake, they still have poor distribution
hope this helps...

p.s. also, not to knock your a/f meter, but i wouldnt try to tune your nitrous system with it, its not reading individual cylinder, its reading everything as a whole, trust your plugs they dont lie!!!

Thanks,

I agree about the a/f reader, it's just something to give me an idea. I still pull the plugs at the top end of the track.

I should have set the fuel to 7psi, it was really rich with a 175 shot and 6.75psi so I thought it would be okay on the 225 shot.

I do have an MSD 7531 with ind. cylinder management, so I will start trying to pull a little more timing out of the end cylinders.

Do you think I'm pulling enough timing out?

Just because the strap is burned does that mean I hurt the cylinder?

[BJCRAZYZ]

Thanks,

I agree about the a/f reader, it's just something to give me an idea. I still pull the plugs at the top end of the track.

I should have set the fuel to 7psi, it was really rich with a 175 shot and 6.75psi so I thought it would be okay on the 225 shot.

I do have an MSD 7531 with ind. cylinder management, so I will start trying to pull a little more timing out of the end cylinders.

Do you think I'm pulling enough timing out?

Just because the strap is burned does that mean I hurt the cylinder?
leak it down and check it, i have burned a few straps in my day and havent hurt anything major
in theory i think your pulling enough timining!! but every engine is different depending on cylinder head and such, only your plugs will tell you this
remember, when you move up to a new horsepower level that you havent run before, you need to start over on sneaking up on the tune up
make short hits on the car, and dont run it all the way thru until your satisfied with the tune, that way you dont nuke any parts:-D

[Mike Thompson]

Sure,

410 sbf
35 degrees total timing
pulling out 10.5 degrees for 225 shot
Wilson Plate system
6.75psi flowing fuel pressure
950lbs bottle pressure
Running on c16
Motor has about 13:1 compression
NGK -9 plugs, gapped at .030
a/f was around 10.3 on the big end

What is the actual jetting? Because you have no or little heat in all the other plugs does not mean the cylinder that wasted the strap is the same. I would pull 3 deg. out of that hole and try it again if it pumps ok. Did you have any kind of fuel ring ? Were the plugs fresh with no passes or warm ups on them?

[trink408]

What is the actual jetting? Because you have no or little heat in all the other plugs does not mean the cylinder that wasted the strap is the same. I would pull 3 deg. out of that hole and try it again if it pumps ok. Did you have any kind of fuel ring ? Were the plugs fresh with no passes or warm ups on them?

I'm running .082 jets.

I couldn't find any kind of fuel ring on the plugs, and they were brand new plugs.

I'm hoping to do the compression test tomorrow.

[Scott Smith]

I'd say 6.75 is on the ragged edge with Wilson stuff.
Go back to 7.0 and take away fuel .1 at a time.
If you don't already have one invest in a good digital pressure gauge.
Are you flowing the fuel through an .82 jet to get your pressure?

[trink408]

I'd say 6.75 is on the ragged edge with Wilson stuff.
Go back to 7.0 and take away fuel .1 at a time.
If you don't already have one invest in a good digital pressure gauge.
Are you flowing the fuel through an .82 jet to get your pressure?

Yeah, I should have went back to 7 like I was going to...

I'm flowing through a .073 jet, everything I read is saying not to change the fuel jet in the flow tool, always flow with a .073 jet.

I have a large face gauge, don't have a digital gauge at this point. Might have to invest in one.

[Scott Smith]

I'm flowing through a .073 jet, everything I read is saying not to change the fuel jet in the flow tool, always flow with a .073 jet.


I have heard that also. But the manufacturer that flows and desighns these systems does not agree with that and neither do I.

If you have 7 pounds of fuel flowing through a .073 jet and your fuel system isn't bullet proof how are you going to still have 7 psi with an .083?

Lets take that a step further.

Lets say your tuning with a .062 tuneup flowing through a .073
Then you jump to a .083 tune with the same pressure you were flowing at .062.
Seems like a hand grenade without a pin to me.

Call Jerrod at Wilson and see what he says.

[Scott Smith]

One more thing,
Is this a cross bar or a single bar?
22 hole or 44 hole?

Headed out to the shop and won't be back till this afternoon/evening.

[trink408]

I have heard that also. But the manufacturer that flows and desighns these systems does not agree with that and neither do I.

If you have 7 pounds of fuel flowing through a .073 jet and your fuel system isn't bullet proof how are you going to still have 7 psi with an .083?

Lets take that a step further.

Lets say your tuning with a .062 tuneup flowing through a .073
Then you jump to a .083 tune with the same pressure you were flowing at .062.
Seems like a hand grenade without a pin to me.

Call Jerrod at Wilson and see what he says.

I also ?? the idea of flowing always using a .073 jet. Guys say you adjust the amount of pressure instead of changing jets. I didn't really see where that made things any more accurate than just changing the flow tool jet. I might go back to flowing with the actual jet I'm using...

I have a 2 stage cross bar plate system, I'm not sure on how many holes.

[trink408]

Compression Test Results...

1=170
2=195
3=200
4=200
5=200
6=185
7=200
8=180

So would you guys tare this motor down, or just change plugs and go???

[BJCRAZYZ]

I also ?? the idea of flowing always using a .073 jet. Guys say you adjust the amount of pressure instead of changing jets. I didn't really see where that made things any more accurate than just changing the flow tool jet. I might go back to flowing with the actual jet I'm using...

I have a 2 stage cross bar plate system, I'm not sure on how many holes.
trink, theres a conversion chart some where for the flow jets, i will see if i can find it for you

[BJCRAZYZ]

Compression Test Results...

1=170
2=195
3=200
4=200
5=200
6=185
7=200
8=180

So would you guys tare this motor down, or just change plugs and go???
170 lbs , hmmmm, what kind of leak down percentage did it have??
if it was me, i would probably pull the head and put an eye ball to it, but thats just me

[trink408]

170 lbs , hmmmm, what kind of leak down percentage did it have??
if it was me, i would probably pull the head and put an eye ball to it, but thats just me

Thanks Jason,

I'm having some issues getting a good leak down test, thing keeps spinning over. It does't look very good though...

[Scott Smith]

So you have a 2 stage plate?

I use the single stage cross bar. 2 fuel jets and 2 Nitous jets.

No chart needed for your setup. It's 1:1 83 fuel requires 83 flow jet.

Is this 225 one stage or 2?

[hiredgun93]

You must flow the system with the jet that your using. I believe he's only using the 1 stage.

[trink408]

Correct, I'm just using the first stage at this point.

I used to flow with the same jet I was running, but than all this talk about only flowing with the same jet (.073) influenced me to switch. I'm going to go back to the old way.

I will pull more timing as well, just seems like 12-13 would be a lot to pull...

[Mike Thompson]

Are you running .082 nitrous and .082 fuel pills? That should be on the rich side with 6.75 psi / 950 psi bottle pressure with c-16. I would think if you ran a 82 nitrous pill then you would want a 72 fuel pill at 6.75 psi. But don't go by what I think. Thats up to you to figure out.

It also sounds like you lifted a ring land.

[Tom McDunnah]

Flow with the .073 jet

If you start changing your ways flowing,your going to be chasing your tail.

Start back out with 7 1/2 pounds,and flow with the .073 jet,and work from there,

[farrigno]

dude for what its worth, from the pics of the plugs you posted, i would say that piston is toast!pull the headand have a look.i know on my junk when my plug looked like that, my piston was melted.

[Scott Smith]

I will pull more timing as well, just seems like 12-13 would be a lot to pull...

I think the initial timing would be where to look.

I'm only running 100 on my wilson plate. It all depends on the eficiency of the motor how it responds to a tune.
I know conventional BBCs that are only pulling 8 degrees for 300.
I run a SB2.2 with only 28 degrees to start then I pull the standard 2.4 per 50hp

I only have 2 passes so far. 7.5 poped in the lights and 7.0 was an animal.

These guys telling you to leave the same jet in aren't paying for your parts when something goes wrong.

Just try flowing fuel with different size jets and see if the pressure stays the same. If it does then your golden leaving it at 73

[trink408]

Are you running .082 nitrous and .082 fuel pills? That should be on the rich side with 6.75 psi / 950 psi bottle pressure with c-16. I would think if you ran a 82 nitrous pill then you would want a 72 fuel pill at 6.75 psi. But don't go by what I think. Thats up to you to figure out.

It also sounds like you lifted a ring land.

I am running the same on both sides, that is how Wilson wants it to be.

I figured I would be okay because the 175 shot at 6.75 was plenty fat pulling out 8 degrees of timing. So I left the fuel alone, and pulled 2.5 more for the extra 50 hp. I guess it was a big jump to the .082 jet and it needs more fuel.

[trink408]

Flow with the .073 jet

If you start changing your ways flowing,your going to be chasing your tail.

Start back out with 7 1/2 pounds,and flow with the .073 jet,and work from there,

This is what scared me about changing from the way I used to flow to always using the .073 jet. I didn't really see what the difference was as long as you flow it the same way every time...

I have always flowed mine with the engine off, and I'm now being told I should have it running because the voltage would change and the flow is probably higher. Thing is, if I start doing that I have to start all over with my flow#'s as well.

[hiredgun93]

DUDE WILSON WANTS YOU TO FLOW YOUR SHIT WITH THE PILLS YOU HAVE IN THE PLATE. IF YOU HAVE 82'S FLOW IT WITH AN 82 JET. THATS THE WAY THEIR STUFF IS DESIGNED.

[Scott Smith]

DUDE WILSON WANTS YOU TO FLOW YOUR SHIT WITH THE PILLS YOU HAVE IN THE PLATE. IF YOU HAVE 82'S FLOW IT WITH AN 82 JET. THATS THE WAY THEIR STUFF IS DESIGNED.


Exactly!
;) ;)

[trink408]

I have made the decision to go back to my old flow methods, just got caught up in everything I read about flowing with the .073 jet.

I pulled the head tonight and the piston looks fine. I will have to pull it out to see if I lifted a ring land or anything. I'm not exactly sure what to look for...

[Mike Thompson]

I have made the decision to go back to my old flow methods, just got caught up in everything I read about flowing with the .073 jet.

I pulled the head tonight and the piston looks fine. I will have to pull it out to see if I lifted a ring land or anything. I'm not exactly sure what to look for...

Look at the top ring groove. They expand by the valve pockets when lifted.