10 MM

[Shelton_Barrs]

Hey guys,
I had a Colt Delta Elite in 10MM years ago. I no longer have it (long story) but I would like to get another one. Are they still available? If not anyone know who produces one? I think Glock is but I've never been a big Glock fan.

[9secvega]

i have one, so i know why u want another. I'm not sure if they still make them.
I bought mine used many years ago, I have seen a couple at gun shows for sale
for about 900 to 1000. A friend i shoot with has a kimber 45 that would be my
2nd choice. feels very simular to mine.

[9secvega]

just went on coltmfg.com i don't think they make it anymore but a gold cup
looks like the same thing in a 45cal.

[O.C White]

.40 caliber put it out of business. Basically the same size round, but the .40 seems to develop more stopping power than the 10mm. I don't want to be hit by either but the .40 seems to pack slightly more punch.

[9secvega]

how can that be its smaller? as in 40 is shorter less powder

[Shelton_Barrs]

I thought they went to the .40 over the recoil issue with the 10mm? I know Federal even developed a "light" load for the FBI due to the recoil issue and female agents being able to control the 10mm. Now I have to go look up the .40 and see, but I still want a 10mm.

[O.C White]

Here is an example of .45 pistol velocity:

185 grain Winchester FMJ : 910 Feet Per Second
185 grain Remington JHP : 1015 Feet Per Second
200 grain Speer FMJ : 975 Feet Per Second
230 grain Federal FMJ : 845 Feet Per Second
230 grain Ultramax JHP : 850 Feet Per Second

As you can see the heavier the grain and type of round, the velocity drops off the charts, but you don't want to get hit with a 230 grain hollow point. Imagine someone hitting you with a man-hole cover.

Let me know if that clears it up a little.

[O.C White]

In pistol cartridges I think a .357 magnum has the fastest velocity. Most of them are in the 1300-1400 FPS range.

[Shelton_Barrs]

Here is an example of .45 pistol velocity:



As you can see the heavier the grain and type of round, the velocity drops off the charts, but you don't want to get hit with a 230 grain hollow point. Imagine someone hitting you with a man-hole cover.

Let me know if that clears it up a little.

I definetely understand what your saying there (used to shoot my buddies .44 with 240s, now that was sweet) but if the .40 and the 10mm are the same bullet weight, with the .40 having less powder behind it make it a "weaker" round when compared to the 10mm with more powder? Wouldn't the increased poweder charge of the 10m produce more velocity than the .40? Or am I reading to much into it?
You (without a doubt) know way more than I do in this area and I am really learning here so if I am way of base with my thinking please help me get it straight. I have shot quite a bit off an on over the years but purely recreational and some hunting (mainly quail and dove) and never what I would call serious shooting. I did get pretty good with a .273 several years ago and remember some about balistics from that but you know how memory works, don't use it you lose it.

[O.C White]

I definetely understand what your saying there (used to shoot my buddies .44 with 240s, now that was sweet) but if the .40 and the 10mm are the same bullet weight, with the .40 having less powder behind it make it a "weaker" round when compared to the 10mm with more powder? Wouldn't the increased poweder charge of the 10m produce more velocity than the .40? Or am I reading to much into it?
You (without a doubt) know way more than I do in this area and I am really learning here so if I am way of base with my thinking please help me get it straight. I have shot quite a bit off an on over the years but purely recreational and some hunting (mainly quail and dove) and never what I would call serious shooting. I did get pretty good with a .273 several years ago and remember some about balistics from that but you know how memory works, don't use it you lose it.

No Shelton,

you are not way off base in the least. I t took me a while to understand it. We are not remembering bullet weight plays into the equation. A .40 may be smaller, and may have less powder, but the lack of bullet weight gives it more velocity.

Just look at the charts of .45 rounds. 230 grain and only move at 850 FPS. A 9mm has tremendous velocity and very little bulet weight. People have been known to survive 9mm shots from FMJ rounds but throw a hollow point in there, and everything changes.

[MCM]

I thought they went to the .40 over the recoil issue with the 10mm? I know Federal even developed a "light" load for the FBI due to the recoil issue and female agents being able to control the 10mm. Now I have to go look up the .40 and see, but I still want a 10mm.What spawned the FBI to explore a larger caliber weapon is a shootout in Miami back in the '80's where 2 agents got killed. Despite the feds making lethal shots with their 9mm weapons, apparently the bad guys were still able to take out the FBI agents. They originally were going to adopt the 10mm, but found it to be a little too powerful. They then made a watered down 10mm load (the FBI "light"). Then S&W jumped into the picture and found that they could duplicate this light load in a slightly shorter case, and fit it in a smaller 9mm sized frame gun. The rest is history. From what I understand, many police agencies don't allow their officers to carry less than a .40 cal weapon because of this.

I still like and prefer the 10mm round. It is perceived by many to "overpenetrate" and not transfer energy effectively (it blows right through things). I actually see this as an advantage if I ever might have to take out a perp sheilding himself behind something (wall, car door, sofa, etc).

[Shelton_Barrs]

No Shelton,

you are not way off base in the least. I t took me a while to understand it. We are not remembering bullet weight plays into the equation. A .40 may be smaller, and may have less powder, but the lack of bullet weight gives it more velocity.

Just look at the charts of .45 rounds. 230 grain and only move at 850 FPS. A 9mm has tremendous velocity and very little bulet weight. People have been known to survive 9mm shots from FMJ rounds but throw a hollow point in there, and everything changes.

I got you now...cob webs are clearing slowly. And I have never been a big fan of the 9mm, the FBI report on the Miami Shooting several years ago shows the 9mm leaves a lot to be desired in my most humble of opinons. But I am sure the hollow points help a great deal.

[MCM]

Shelton, have you seen Dan Wesson's Razorback:

http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=80

I seriously considered getting one when they were a limited production gun. I may just have to get one now.

[Shelton_Barrs]

Shelton, have you seen Dan Wesson's Razorback:

http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=80

I seriously considered getting one when they were a limited production gun. I may just have to get one now.

I came across that also, real nice looking but is it made in Czech Republic? Be nice to find something still made here...

[MrMike990]

I thought they went to the .40 over the recoil issue with the 10mm? I know Federal even developed a "light" load for the FBI due to the recoil issue and female agents being able to control the 10mm. Now I have to go look up the .40 and see, but I still want a 10mm.



Yep, Shelton you are exactly right. After the Miami massacre, the FBI determined that the 10mm was the ideal cartridge and navgiated to the 10mm on the S&W 1076 platform. A dozen or so major LE agencies followed the FBI's lead as well. As it turned out the 10mm loads caused frame cracking and for many the recoil was too great. The "light load" was developed, but by that time the 10mm's fate was sealed. The 40 Short and Weak was created and the rest is history. After the FBI pitched the S&W 10's, I ended with two that had consecutive serial numbers, I wish now that I still had them. The 10mm full power loads run about 100-200fps faster than the top 40 S&W loads. I have a bastard 1911 that's been a 10mm, 40S&W,400 Corbon and 40 Super.


http://www.bren-ten.com/website/id7.html

Mike

[MCM]

I came across that also, real nice looking but is it made in Czech Republic? Be nice to find something still made here...No it's still made in the US (New York). Haven't been to there site in a while - seems that they teamed up with CZ arms.

[Monty Mikho]

10/25.4 = .3937"
40 caliber = .4000"

the 10 mm is .0063" smaller.. :p

[MCM]

10/25.4 = .3937"
40 caliber = .4000"

the 10 mm is .0063" smaller.. :pRiiiiight - and a .357 is a whole lot smaller than a .38 ;)

[Monty Mikho]

I thought someone earlier said the 40 was smaller.. I could be wrong.. and probably am...

[O.C White]

A .40 may be smaller, and may have less powder, but the lack of bullet weight gives it more velocity.

Someone did.

[FordRacing250]

how about the FN5.7 for volicity.. I will say im a big 40cal fan... and it will always be my main gun gotta luv my HK, but the 5.7 is impressive. almost zero recoil.
tim

[MrMike990]

how about the FN5.7 for volicity.. I will say im a big 40cal fan... and it will always be my main gun gotta luv my HK, but the 5.7 is impressive. almost zero recoil.
tim

In a pistol it's a novelty at best though. It's best app is still a CQB subgun.

[MCM]

I thought someone earlier said the 40 was smaller.. I could be wrong.. and probably am...Sorry Monty, I thought you were joking (hard to tell sometimes):p. The 40 S&W is smaller, but in length. The case length is about 3/16" shorter than the 10mm. Bullet diameter is the same @.400" (the bullets they sell for reloading are made for both calibers). Other than that, they are essentially the same in every other dimension (10mm uses a larger primer though). You can actually safely fire the 40 S&W round in a 10mm gun, but not vice/versa.