My rant!!!

[Monty Mikho]

What the phuck is wrong with people? All these phuckin gun haters who blame guns for killing people... Isnt it people who kill people? Do these phuckin nuts believe if there were no guns were would be no phuckin murders? I will bet my life these cock suckers will hate them every phuckin day of their life till they need one really bad to protect themselves or their family!!! Lets say we remove all weapons from earth!!! Does that mean no one will get killed? Why dont these nut cases take a class in history and figure out that man has been killing man for as long as man has existed!! From chocking, to stoning, to drowning, to beating with sticks, knives and the list goes one!! So to you stupid phuckers get a phuckin clue.. Guns even the battle field.. What does that mean? It means your 80 YO grandmother armed with a handgun, shot gun or what the phuck ever she is armed with can take down a 25 YB 6'5" tall guy who is 280#'s with one phuckin shot!!! But without a gun who is gonna win you stupid phuckers? WHO? So go phuck yourself..


Sorry Gunny I know this is your section but I just needed to vent a little..

[Monty Mikho]

Sorry for the misspelled words.. Its a rant... Sort through it and figure the shit out.. Dont make me bitch you out next!!!

[silvercv2002]

Nice spelling, fuckass...

[nos351]

This is where a requirement to serve in the military would help. Would give people who have no clue about firearms some exposure and maybe turn their thought process around.

[O.C White]

Monty,

what rant? I agree 100% with you. I guess we need to get rid of baseball bats and cars next. Sure is a lot of people killed yearly by cars but I don't hear no one saying ban cars unless they are Amish. I don't see a low sale of baseball bats, and killing someone with a baseball is a lot more violent than shooting someone in the chest.

It takes a special(read nutcase) to stand there and beat you to death with baseball bat. Most shooters, shoot then run.

I don't see it as a rant Monty. If it is keep ranting. And this is your board.

[O.C White]

What the phuck is wrong with people? All these phuckin gun haters who blame guns for killing people... Isnt it people who kill people? Do these phuckin nuts believe if there were no guns were would be no phuckin murders? I will bet my life these cock suckers will hate them every phuckin day of their life till they need one really bad to protect themselves or their family!!! Lets say we remove all weapons from earth!!! Does that mean no one will get killed? Why dont these nut cases take a class in history and figure out that man has been killing man for as long as man has existed!! From chocking, to stoning, to drowning, to beating with sticks, knives and the list goes one!! So to you stupid phuckers get a phuckin clue.. Guns even the battle field.. What does that mean? It means your 80 YO grandmother armed with a handgun, shot gun or what the phuck ever she is armed with can take down a 25 YB 6'5" tall guy who is 280#'s with one phuckin shot!!! But without a gun who is gonna win you stupid phuckers? WHO? So go phuck yourself..


Sorry Gunny I know this is your section but I just needed to vent a little..

Monty,

next time they start spouting off, tell them none of the 9-11 hijackers had guns and they killed 3000 people in 45 minutes with a box opener. Oh wait maybe we should ban 767's also.

[handfist]

Monty,

next time they start spouting off, tell them none of the 9-11 hijackers had guns and they killed 3000 people in 45 minutes with a box opener. Oh wait maybe we should ban 767's also.

If you would think like the anti-gun people then you would ban box openers.

[O.C White]

If you would think like the anti-gun people then you would ban box openers.

Guess box cutters will never be banned then. In this movie "300" anyone get shot in that movie? I don't know I haven't seen it, but there was some dtying wasn't it? In the trailer I recall someone being kicked down a well?

[Oldsmoduck]

Problem is there is a large part of society that lives in a shell, protected, they feel, by the laws of this country.. They dont take chances, they dont live carelessly, they live under the cover of LAW, which for the most part these days... are designed to protect the stupid...

Same people who are bitching about guns......

[O.C White]

Problem is there is a large part of society that lives in a shell, protected, they feel, by the laws of this country.. They dont take chances, they dont live carelessly, they live under the cover of LAW, which for the most part these days... are designed to protect the stupid...

Same people who are bitching about guns......

Quoted for those that might have missed it the first time.

[Monty Mikho]

I do not shoot or buy guns to kill anyone. I do it so if the days comes I need to protect myself I will be at an even or above even position. Buying a gun to protect yourself is no different than buying an alarm system for your home to protect the goods you worked so hard for. Just like an alarm system.. you dont buy one when you know you are going to get robber or after.. You buy it before.. Just like a weapon to protect yourself.. Everyone wishes they would never have to shoot anyone.. But if need be I would!!! And trust me if I wasnt armed with a gun at that time I would use anything to protect myself.. This includes my car, a rock, a stick, a bat, a pipe, a knife or what the phuck ever it would take to stay alive..

[Monty Mikho]

BTW anyone who believes a cop has to put his life on the line to protect yours is smoking some heavy shit.. A cop DOES NOT have to do that.. If you are caught in a cross fire and you are ready to get shot.. A cop can walk away if he feels his life can or will be taken.. Will cops walk away? probably not.. But like anything else I like taking to "maybe" out of the forumla..

[garyj]

Nice spelling, fuckass...
fuck off:axe:

[RRRAAAYYY2]

I do not shoot or buy guns to kill anyone. I do it so if the days comes I need to protect myself I will be at an even or above even position. Buying a gun to protect yourself is no different than buying an alarm system for your home to protect the goods you worked so hard for. Just like an alarm system.. you dont buy one when you know you are going to get robber or after.. You buy it before.. Just like a weapon to protect yourself.. Everyone wishes they would never have to shoot anyone.. But if need be I would!!! And trust me if I wasnt armed with a gun at that time I would use anything to protect myself.. This includes my car, a rock, a stick, a bat, a pipe, a knife or what the phuck ever it would take to stay alive..
That is why the next crack dealer that comes to collect the 20 bucks you owe him is gonna just blow your ass up and make an example of you. He aint gonna take chances that you can have the upper hand.

Same iwth the little old shotting the 280lb guy. He knows it to and aint taking any chances. Instead of asking her for her money, he is going to club her fist to make sure she cant pull a weapon on him.

I asked it on the other thread, and I will ask it here too. Why is the homicide rate in the US over 3 times higher thna in Canada? What is the difference between us?

[Monty Mikho]

That is why the next crack dealer that comes to collect the 20 bucks you owe him is gonna just blow your ass up and make an example of you. He aint gonna take chances that you can have the upper hand.

Same iwth the little old shotting the 280lb guy. He knows it to and aint taking any chances. Instead of asking her for her money, he is going to club her fist to make sure she cant pull a weapon on him.

I asked it on the other thread, and I will ask it here too. Why is the homicide rate in the US over 3 times higher thna in Canada? What is the difference between us?


We have more people in NY than you guys do in the whole country of Canada.. Go to Mexico.. They are not alowed to use guns and let me know what their crime rate is as well.. And since ya will be doing some research please let me know how Toronto is going on their crime rates.. Need more examples? Look at the top most dangerous places in the world.. Then let me know if they are allowed to own guns... Thanks for doing my research...

[Long Dong Silver]

I don't see a low sale of baseball bats, and killing someone with a baseball is a lot more violent than shooting someone in the chest.

Sorry if this has been said, but I don't have time to read everything. I agree, however, I'd rather be shot and die quick rather than spend a while being beaten with a bat. Ban bats! They aren't good for anything but baseball, and that sucks.

[Monty Mikho]

Also can you tell me how many millions of people were murdered during the Crusades? I dont believe they had any guns.. But who knows maybe God gave them some?

[Monty Mikho]

BTW if we ban guns.. Who will this affect? Only the people who get them legally!! The people who get them to kill people usually dont go thru the process!!! But again tree huggin people will say "just get rid of all of them" which is about the stupidest thing someone can say.. but Im sure we will hear it here at YB.com!!

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Monty, again with the twisted answer. Fact is for every 100,000 people in the US, there are over 8 homicides in a year. This has been fairly steady for a long time. At the same time in Canada for every 100,000 people there are just over 2 homicides in a year. That has been the same for a pretty long time two. As is the ratio between us.

That is a pretty huge spread. Comparing us to Mexico is 1.) Not what I asked about, 2.) A skewed question as miltias groups and corrupt police exsit there.

So again, what do you think is the difference between our two countries that makes it three times more likely you will be murdered than me? Not asking for statistics, just your thoughts on why.

[taxman]

So again, what do you think is the difference between our two countries that makes it three times more likely you will be murdered than me?

Because it's full of Americans?

[O.C White]

Ray,

when you have more people and more economic diversity these things happen.

Chris said it best in another thread some people are fat and lazy. Unfortunately some of those fat and lazy people will rob or kill you for what you have instead of just being fat and lazy.

[Monty Mikho]

Monty, again with the twisted answer. Fact is for every 100,000 people in the US, there are over 8 homicides in a year. This has been fairly steady for a long time. At the same time in Canada for every 100,000 people there are just over 2 homicides in a year. That has been the same for a pretty long time two. As is the ratio between us.

That is a pretty huge spread. Comparing us to Mexico is 1.) Not what I asked about, 2.) A skewed question as miltias groups and corrupt police exsit there.

So again, what do you think is the difference between our two countries that makes it three times more likely you will be murdered than me? Not asking for statistics, just your thoughts on why.


What makes it different is simple, Ray. You live in a rather big country with very little population. This usually means that people are more spread out. The crime in the US is in the majority big cities that are heavily populated. These cities are high in murder rates. The highest numbers come from those who are heavily populated and are below the average in income or just have no money at all. When we look at Detroit over all the income levels in that city are way below average. When you move over to Windsor that is no longer the case. So lets use NY as an example. There are just a little more people there then there is in the whole country of Canada. But land mass is about 400 times that of NY.... Now lets take all the people in NY and move them across the US and have no one else on this land but them. Would you agree the murder rates would go down? Or do you believe these people would travel a 1000 miles to kill someone... If you want proof of this look no further than the country like places in America.. The crime rate is these areas are nill!!!

[RRRAAAYYY2]

BTW if we ban guns.. Who will this affect? Only the people who get them legally!! The people who get them to kill people usually dont go thru the process!!! But again tree huggin people will say "just get rid of all of them" which is about the stupidest thing someone can say.. but Im sure we will hear it here at YB.com!!
Yep criminals will still have guns. I cant argue that. Criminals in Canada all have guns to, I know that is the truth. Criminals will kill you if that is what their intentions are. Whether you are packing a machine gun or not.

My point is if they dont think they need to kill you to be successful, they probably wont kill you. Since more criminals kill people than are stopped by people, maybe convincing them they dont need to kill you might help reduce your homicide rate.

[O.C White]

There ain't no convincing a killer of anything. How many serial killers do we have that have strangled women to death?

Sorry Ray but there is no negotiating with a killer period. If a person is going to kill, they are going to kill, they don't have to have a gun to do it.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Monty, Population density? etc Are you sure you wanted to go there?

Detriot 2,647 people per km2, 42.00 homicides per 100,000 people
Washington 3,543 people per km2, 69.30 homicides per 100,000 people
Victoria BC, 3,966 people per km2, 3.45 homicides per 100,000 people
Toronto, Ont, 3,972 people per km2, 1.80 homicides per 100,000 people
New York, 10,292 people per km2, 16.80 hom,icides per 100,000 people

Canada's worst area is Northwest Territories and Invituk, which rates are really high do to lack of density. Or could it be that everyone up there owns a gun? Hmmm never thought of that.

[Monty Mikho]

Ray, a few things you are forgetting here. Criminals usually look for easy targets or the path of least resistance (being a sparky yourself you should understand this).. Lets use a few examples!!!

Criminal wants to rob a bank.. Which of the below does he hit?
a) one with 15 arm guards in front with 100 million in there
b) one with security cameras everywhere and an armed person inside 10 million in there
c) one with no security, no guard and no cameras with 1 million in there?

An unarmed criminal wants to rape a woman. Which does he pick
a) a woman carrying a .45 caliber weapon
b) a woman who has a baseball bat in her hands
c) a woman who has nothing to protect herself

Same question as above with a arm rapist

People who want to kill will kill.. no matter with a gun, knife, bat or by hands.. We cannot change that.. The only thing we can do is choose our method of protection!!! Again remember the criminals pick on the weak.. When you are them weak they are at an even stand point!!!

[Monty Mikho]

Monty, Population density? etc Are you sure you wanted to go there?

Detriot 2,647 people per km2, 42.00 homicides per 100,000 people
Washington 3,543 people per km2, 69.30 homicides per 100,000 people
Victoria BC, 3,966 people per km2, 3.45 homicides per 100,000 people
Toronto, Ont, 3,972 people per km2, 1.80 homicides per 100,000 people
New York, 10,292 people per km2, 16.80 hom,icides per 100,000 people

Canada's worst area is Northwest Territories and Invituk, which rates are really high do to lack of density. Or could it be that everyone up there owns a gun? Hmmm never thought of that.


That is awesome.. Now go to the second part of that post.. I talked about income levels.. Can you do a comparaison there?

[Monty Mikho]

Monty, Population density? etc Are you sure you wanted to go there?

Detriot 2,647 people per km2, 42.00 homicides per 100,000 people
Washington 3,543 people per km2, 69.30 homicides per 100,000 people
Victoria BC, 3,966 people per km2, 3.45 homicides per 100,000 people
Toronto, Ont, 3,972 people per km2, 1.80 homicides per 100,000 people
New York, 10,292 people per km2, 16.80 hom,icides per 100,000 people

Canada's worst area is Northwest Territories and Invituk, which rates are really high do to lack of density. Or could it be that everyone up there owns a gun? Hmmm never thought of that.

BTW how many of them are committed by a gun?

[RRRAAAYYY2]

I am not going to spend 80 hours digging up statristics. The simply truth is there is a huge difference between us, and I want to know what you think is the cause of that. You list population density, that was easy to check, cost living may be a bit harder. I will see though. Any reason why you cant do it though, it is afterall your opinion, not mine.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

BTW how many of them are committed by a gun?
What does that matter to the original question. My position is the right to carry, have lots of guns, MIGHT have a negative impact on the homicide rate.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Well cost of living or a cities expensive ranking (income compared to cost of living) wasnt that hard to find. Well not every city, but here is some I found:

Ottawa 90th most expensive (75.6) and 1.25 homicide rate
Washington 83rd (77) and 69.3 homicide rate
Toronto 47th (82.6) and 1.8 homicide rate
New York 10th (100) and 16.8 homicide rate

[RyonPro1]

A buddy of mine where I used to work had a funny saying. He was a simple man with a great sense of humor. When the topic of guns and laws came up he stayed quiet till then end and then said,
"They are not taking my riffles. I don't need a handgun, I'm not planning on robbing a liquor store."

Just thought some of you guys might find that funny.

Shawn

[Monty Mikho]

Ray, NY and Washington are both no carry places... Now try another avenue...

[Monty Mikho]

A buddy of mine where I used to work had a funny saying. He was a simple man with a great sense of humor. When the topic of guns and laws came up he stayed quiet till then end and then said,
"They are not taking my riffles. I don't need a handgun, I'm not planning on robbing a liquor store."

Just thought some of you guys might find that funny.

Shawn


I dont plan of robbing a liquor store either.. But I do leave my house once in a while and a riffle is kinda tuff to carry...

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Well monty go and find a carry place and see how it ranks then. Do you think Detriot up there? It didnt even make the list I had, meaning it may not even be in the top 100 most expensive places, and its homicide rate is 42. So it is just getting worse for you.

[RyonPro1]

Sorry Monty,
I should have clarified. This guy is a BIG gun owner. He was just screwing around the idiots arguing and not saying anything. He just likes to stir stuff up. Kind of reminds me of another place I like to go to.

Shawn

[RRRAAAYYY2]

I dont plan of robbing a liquor store either.. But I do leave my house once in a while and a riffle is kinda tuff to carry...
Sawed off 10ga fit in my ex-police jacket real fine.

[Monty Mikho]

Well monty go and find a carry place and see how it ranks then. Do you think Detriot up there? It didnt even make the list I had, meaning it may not even be in the top 100 most expensive places, and its homicide rate is 42. So it is just getting worse for you.


Michigan passed the right to carry in 2001... Please look up murder rates in michigan and see the downslide of murders in Michigan since 2001 while the population grew...

[Monty Mikho]

Sawed off 10ga fit in my ex-police jacket real fine.


Sawed off shot guns are not legal in Michigan.. Maybe the reason we rate so high on the murder scale eh?

[Monty Mikho]

Here you go Ray.. I know your google must have overloaded by now

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/micrime.htm

[RRRAAAYYY2]

So you didnt like comparing cities so you wanted to go to whole States. So your homicide rate is down to 6.086 which is still 3 and 1/2 times greater than Toronto. Still twice as high as it was in the 60's in Michigan.

Did the carry law come in 1994 as that is when the homicide rate started to drop from its peak?

[taxman]

A good example is when Bernard Goetz blasted 4 muggers on the subway in NYC years ago. The crime wave took a swan dive for months.

[Monty Mikho]

Most murderous countries in the world..
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

Most trigger happy countries in the world..
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita

Most corrupt countries in the world... (please notice Canada work its way up the charts as the US slides)
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/gov_cor-government-corruption

Im really not seeing where there is a connection between honest people being able to carry guns over those who do not allow their people to own them.. As a matter of fact the top countries in them lists are not allowed to carry or even own guns!!!

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Monty, the question is comparing Canada to the US, no other. You keep skating this way and that way. Back on track please. What is the difference between us?

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Interestingly you are 3 times more likely to be murder in the US than Canada. But you are 5 times more likely to be murder by a gun in the US than in Canada. Hmmmmmm Anymore interesting statisitics you want to point out.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Most corrupt countries in the world... (please notice Canada work its way up the charts as the US slides)
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/gov_cor-government-corruption


Ok I am at a loss as to how this relates to homicides:
DEFINITION: A CPI Score relates to perceptions of the degree of corruption as seen by business people and country analysts and ranges between 10 (highly clean) and 0 (highly corrupt). Includes police (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_pol) corruption (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/gov_cor), business corruption (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/gov_cor), political corruption (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/gov_cor), etc. Data for 2005.

Canada 14th with 8.4
US 17th with 7.6

[Monty Mikho]

Monty, the question is comparing Canada to the US, no other. You keep skating this way and that way. Back on track please. What is the difference between us?


Im not really sure.. But its obviously not from gun control.. If you believe it is you need to look up Great Britain and Whales and what their crime rates and murders look like since the 1997 ban on arms.. Personally I think the crime rate in Canada is low because of population density.. People are less stressed there...

[Monty Mikho]

Ok I am at a loss as to how this relates to homicides:
DEFINITION: A CPI Score relates to perceptions of the degree of corruption as seen by business people and country analysts and ranges between 10 (highly clean) and 0 (highly corrupt). Includes police (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_pol) corruption (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/gov_cor), business corruption (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/gov_cor), political corruption (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/gov_cor), etc. Data for 2005.

Canada 14th with 8.4
US 17th with 7.6

Im not sure either but I thought it was funny as hell.. No wonder there are low murder rates in Canada.. They're too stupid to even know they are getting robbed...:-kill

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Ah, the higher the rate in that survey the better, as it is a measure of not being corrupt.

You need to pull up a map of population density in Canada. We may have huge amounts of land, but our populations all live pretty close together. Did you 90 percent of the popluation of Canada lives within 60 miles of the US border.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Is this what you wanted me to find??????

In 2005/06 there were 766 offences initially recorded as homicide by the police in England and Wales (including the 52 victims of the 7 July 2005 London bombings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings)),[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom#_note-13) a rate of 1.4 per 100,000 of population. Only 50 (6.6%) were committed with firearms, one being with an air weapon.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom#_note-14) The homicide rate for London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London) was 2.4 per 100,000 in the same year (1.7 when excluding the 7 July bombings).[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom#_note-15)
By comparison, 5.5 murders per 100,000 of population were reported by police in the United States in 2000, of which 70% involved the use of firearms (75% of which were illegally obtained).[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom#_note-16) New York City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City), with a population size similar to London (over 7 million residents), reported 6.9 murders per 100,000 people in 2004.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom#_note-17)

[Monty Mikho]

Ray I want to ask you a simple question and please be honest. You have met me before and I am not sure how you will answer this question. But do you believe before I bought a gun I was a different person then I am after? I think what you are missing is that a gun does not make a person a criminal or a murderer... And someone who does not own a gun it doesnt make them a saint.. All a gun does is amplify their ability to either protect themselves or use it to commit a crime with.. No one here in the US is making anyone own a gun... and we both agree that even in good ol Canada their is gun crimes although there is strong laws of getting one.. Guns are not the problem.. people are...

[RRRAAAYYY2]

You come across now as a little more cynical, but I doubt that has anything to do with a gun and most likely all to do with the internet. It has been a long time since we seen each other face to face. (Too long)

You see I am not arguing that you are a bad person because you have a gun. I am not arguing that you dont have a right to defend yourself. You are right guns dont kill people, people kill people.

Majority of murders are between two people that know each other. I have been in over 1500 street fights. In a lot of those I didnt start, just finished. The other guy lost, but if he had the opportunity too, i.e. was carrying, do you think he would have taken the beating he called upon himself. So I think a lot of the murders you see are crimes of opportunity. The person had the opportunity to kill someone they were mad at, because they had a gun handy. No gun you would see maybe 2.3 homicide rate, and the assualt rate jump 4.0 Just an example.

[Monty Mikho]

You come across now as a little more cynical, but I doubt that has anything to do with a gun and most likely all to do with the internet. It has been a long time since we seen each other face to face. (Too long)

You see I am not arguing that you are a bad person because you have a gun. I am not arguing that you dont have a right to defend yourself. You are right guns dont kill people, people kill people.

Majority of murders are between two people that know each other. I have been in over 1500 street fights. In a lot of those I didnt start, just finished. The other guy lost, but if he had the opportunity too, i.e. was carrying, do you think he would have taken the beating he called upon himself. So I think a lot of the murders you see are crimes of opportunity. The person had the opportunity to kill someone they were mad at, because they had a gun handy. No gun you would see maybe 2.3 homicide rate, and the assualt rate jump 4.0 Just an example.

I see exactly why you feel the way you feel now.. Being in many street fights and always winning puts you at a advantage point.. But lets not only think about ourselves now, Ray. How about that 5'1" woman who is minding her own business just trying to get to her car after a long days worth of work.. Does she have a chance against a guy who wants to rape her? Does she not have the right to defend herself? I dont think even a baseball bat could defend her in this situation.. Only a hand gun would.. well that and her taking the rape like a woman and laughing about it a few weeks later eh?

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Ok say I am going to rape a girl. Got mind mind set that that is what I going to do. She lives in Toronto so I think the owrst that I am going to get is pepper sprayed. So I grabb her and take my chances. I accidently let her see me, so I lay a beating on her to scare her into not telling anyone.
So girl, same situation, but now in Detriot. I think she might be packing. So instead of just grabbing her I stick a gun to her head. Check to make sure she isnt packing. Rape her. She sees me, I get nervous and pump a few rounds inot her.
Ask the girl if she would rather have been raped and lived, or raped and dead.

[Monty Mikho]

Ok say I am going to rape a girl. Got mind mind set that that is what I going to do. She lives in Toronto so I think the owrst that I am going to get is pepper sprayed. So I grabb her and take my chances. I accidently let her see me, so I lay a beating on her to scare her into not telling anyone.
So girl, same situation, but now in Detriot. I think she might be packing. So instead of just grabbing her I stick a gun to her head. Check to make sure she isnt packing. Rape her. She sees me, I get nervous and pump a few rounds inot her.
Ask the girl if she would rather have been raped and lived, or raped and dead.


Perfect example Ray.. Say you are that person.. are you going to go to the police department to get a permit.. buy a gun at the dealer and register it after the sale? If you are this person.. you do not do things the legal way.. the people who fight for gun rights are not trying to do it the illegal way as well...

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Also as good as a scraper I was, I still carried when I thought the situation called for it. Which you can read as if I thought someone else might have a gun where i was going, I had a bigger one.

[Monty Mikho]

Also as good as a scraper I was, I still only carried when I thought the situation called for it. Which you can read as if I thought someone else might have a gun where i was going, I had a bigger one.


And im willing to bet that scared the living shit out of your because you were confronted at an even stand point.. But Im sure when the fight was only a fist fight it was no problem because you knew you could kick the living shit outta that person.. Again it shows alot about the way you feel...

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Here is my 1000th post: First I have to say how much I thank God that I am still here to make this post.

It was never even. This has been my point. If I thought you were carrying and might be an issue. I was ready to go at all times, and my hand would never leave the grip. You could go for a weapon if you wanted, I only had to raise my arm and squeeze.

A criminal never tries to commit a crime they dont think they can get away with. They only commit crimes they think they can get away with, because they think they are prepared enough for it.

Well I am off to bed.

[Monty Mikho]

Ray, I do have a question for you. Why did you carry when you thought the other person was carrying?








In that answer will be the reason I like to carry all the time.. Thanks for the arguments and proving my case...

[Monty Mikho]

BTW Ray, just like you I wish there were no guns.. But I would only want them banned when all crime, violence and corruption is done away with in the world.. No one looks forward to putting a gun on themselves hoping the are confronted with a situation where they will have to use it.. But I live in a reality world.. unlike others..

[O.C White]

I just thought I would sign back on and i have to say this has been comical to say the least.

I think the amendments of the USA say's enough about my right to own and carry.

I don't care what they do in Canada, I don't vote for anyone in Canada, and I am not looking to save any lives in Canada, I am worried about protecting me, and what's mine here in the great old USA.

[kelly andersen]

I was lead to believe stabbings were the most common cause of murder, I saw a study that said knives or sharp objects were used more than ant other weapon, but this article says different. Its kinda long but has alot of stuff in it, weapon type. regions. big cities. Its kind of interesting. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/region.htm

[racer1]

I

I don't care what they do in Canada, I don't vote for anyone in Canada, and I am not looking to save any lives in Canada, I am worried about protecting me, and what's mine here in the great old USA.



Yeah your right, but if you lived here you wouldnt spend so much time protecting it. LOL

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Maybe though what you and others have done is created the reality that you live in. Most homicides are between two people who know each other, very seldomn is it a randomn crime. Go through life and be a half decent person and you wont get beat up, let alone shot.

As for myslef and my past. We are talking about specific cases were I knew I wasgoing to be in a nad situation. I would really, really, hate to live my life thinking everyday was like that.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Gunny,
The question I originally posed, that everyone seems to want to avoid. Is why do you think you are over 3 times as likely to get murdered living in the US, than I am living in Canada? Why do you think this is Gunny.

[Jeremy Glass]

Gunny,
The question I originally posed, that everyone seems to want to avoid. Is why do you think you are over 3 times as likely to get murdered living in the US, than I am living in Canada? Why do you think this is Gunny.


Regardless, we still need the right to carry a gun to protect ourselves. The bad guys are always going to have guns. And if they know their victims wont have a weapon it makes it that much easier.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Regardless, we still need the right to carry a gun to protect ourselves. The bad guys are always going to have guns. And if they know their victims wont have a weapon it makes it that much easier.
What about if they know their victims dont have a gun they are less likely to kill you first. There were always be criminals and crime. You cant avoid that.

[O.C White]

Gunny,
The question I originally posed, that everyone seems to want to avoid. Is why do you think you are over 3 times as likely to get murdered living in the US, than I am living in Canada? Why do you think this is Gunny.

My personal opinion? People leave themselves open to being assaulted. I watch women walk out of Wal-Mart at night with a cell phone stuck up to their ears, fumbling with their cars keys, and putting their change away. They might as well have a target on them.

Read my post in the handgun hero thread about the combat mindset. People do not focus on their surrounding's, no matter if they live in Brentwood, California, or 5th Ward Houston, Texas.

You make yourself an easy target, you will be an easy target. Sometimes I tell my girlfriend things, and she just says I amaze her with my thinking, and I am 90% right most of the time when it comes to watching my butt, and covering my 6.

Awareness Ray is what I attritbute it to. People are not aware of their surroundings.

Not sure that is the asnwer you are looking for, but that's my opinion.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Gunny,
I am looking for opinions on why the difference between Canada and the US. I dont think we are really that much more aware of our surroundings. Heck women walk around Ontario bare chested.
Did you know that only 15percent of men murdered are strangers to the the attacker, while with women it is 8 percent. Means if you get murdered it is mostly likely a friend that is going to do it. Nice to know eh.

[O.C White]

Gunny,
I am looking for opinions on why the difference between Canada and the US. I dont think we are really that much more aware of our surroundings. Heck women walk around Ontario bare chested.
Did you know that only 15percent of men murdered are strangers to the the attacker, while with women it is 8 percent. Means if you get murdered it is mostly likely a friend that is going to do it. Nice to know eh.

That's why I don't have very many friends. :-D

Ray let me throw a scenario at you, let's try to think outside of our prespective boxes for a minute. Strap in you will enjoy the ride.

You are a mugger, you wear a mask because you don't want to hurt anyone just scare them into giving you money.

Okay you see two potential targets both female.

Target (1) Yacking away on a cell phone, counting money in public, it's 9pm, very attractive.

Target (2) Stops to look around, keeps cars between herself and a potential attack, very attractive, doesn't carry a purse but you can tell she has money, it's 9pm,

Which target you hit?

[RRRAAAYYY2]

No. 2 if you had to do it right away. Move quickly and just knock her out cold, search er for the money belt and any weapon she might have.

If you had time to stalk her and such no. 1 would be better. But as long as she is yapping on the phone, you cant touch her. Here friend can call 911 for her, it might be a picture phone, etc.

If chick number 3 is carrying a brief case full of money and might be packing. I pull up shoot her, cut her arm off to take the money. Then leave.

[O.C White]

Ray,

nice re-direct.

A criminal ain't going to stop and see if she is using a camera phone or not. he ain't going to care who she is talking to, by the time the dizzy friend on the other end is done asking what happened, are you alright, are you still there, can you hear me now, he will be long gone.

[sigman]

Any of you folks go to firearms websites??........like SigForum, The High Road, Sniper'shide?? Lots more similarly minded folks to talk with. I'm an avid firearms collector/enthusiest. I like really like the black type "Homeland Security Rifles":smt070

[O.C White]

Any of you folks go to firearms websites??........like SigForum, The High Road, Sniper'shide?? Lots more similarly minded folks to talk with. I'm an avid firearms collector/enthusiest. I like really like the black type "Homeland Security Rifles":smt070

We hope to attract as many gun enthusiast here as well. Got a pretty diverse lot here.

Welcome aboard.

[DHR racecars]

I have guns and I like to kill.............:smt070

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Gunny,
Yes a criminal is going to care about the camera phone. Criminals care about getting caught, if they thought they were going to get caught, then they wouldnt do the crime. What criminals dont care about is the victim.

I knew you thought it would be aredirect, LOL. Take the phone away from no 1 and she would be your average muggers first victim.

But we still keep going away from the original question. Our countries are basically made up of people with the same heritage, our economies are tied to one another, etc. We are pretty hard to tell apart sometimes. But there is a huge difference between the chances you face being murdered and the chances I face.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

I have guns and I like to kill.............:smt070
I have guns too. Even including a 3" ball canon. You should see the mess a couple of rolls of quarters mixed with bearing balls will make with it. Could take 20-30 people out at once with it.

[O.C White]

Ray,

care to explain your avatar? :-D

And I still say awareness is the key to survival.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Ray,

care to explain your avatar? :-D

And I still say awareness is the key to survival.
Well they say I am a prime candidate to be a pyscopath, especially now that I am not venting my anger on a regular basis. Though this is what they say, I dont believe them.

The avatar is from an online game I play. I had a bunch of half naked women in my avatar and my wife pointed out that I was probably looking pretty hypocritical, so I needed to change it to something else. That avatar was quick and easy.

Gunny are you at least thinking about what the difference between our two countries might be. I totally agree with you that you need to be aware of your surroundings. But I dont think Canadians are three times more aware of their surroundings than Americans are.

[O.C White]

Ray,

I can't comment accurately on what happens in Canada. I have never been to Canada so I can't make even a 5% guess what happens there.

I am not going to sit here and blow smoke up your butt saying "well things in Canada are this way because" I can't comment on Canada, or any of Canada laws.

Obviously something is working in Canada but you still have violent crimes there.

[kdesigns]

Monty, Carl,
Here's your kinda town. Right here in Cobb County, Georgia:

Kennesaw has the nickname of "Gun Town, USA" due to a city ordinance passed in 1982 [Sec 34-1a] that requires every head of household to maintain a firearm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm) with ammunition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammunition).

Criminologist and gun-control critic Gary Kleck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck) attributes a drop of 89% in the residential burglary rate to the law (Kleck, 1991), and Kennesaw is often cited by advocates of gun ownership as evidence that gun ownership deters crime

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia

"The right to bear arms" - The second amendment to the constitution.
Keep ranting, Monty. The right to free speech is number 1.

[O.C White]

Monty, Carl,
Here's your kinda town. Right here in Cobb County, Georgia:

Kennesaw has the nickname of "Gun Town, USA" due to a city ordinance passed in 1982 [Sec 34-1a] that requires every head of household to maintain a firearm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm) with ammunition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammunition).

Criminologist and gun-control critic Gary Kleck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck) attributes a drop of 89% in the residential burglary rate to the law (Kleck, 1991), and Kennesaw is often cited by advocates of gun ownership as evidence that gun ownership deters crime

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia

"The right to bear arms" - The second amendment to the constitution.
Keep ranting, Monty. The right to free speech is number 1.

Ray,

you read this post? 89 friggin percent.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Carl,
Did you read it before you gave me the link and asked me to do the same?

"Criminologist and gun-control critic Gary Kleck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kleck) attributes a drop of 89% in the residential burglary rate to the law (Kleck, 1991), and Kennesaw is often cited by advocates of gun ownership as evidence that gun ownership deters crime (see, for instance, this 2004 sheet of talking points (http://www.gunowners.org/fs0404.htm) from the Gun Owners Foundation). Other criminologists dispute the 89% figure, using the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting data, and find instead a small, statistically insignificant increase in burglaries after the law was passed (McDowall, Wiersema and Loftin, 1989; McDowall, Lizotte and Wiersema, 1991)."

Seems to me that if you use the same formula's as everyone else, the crime rate increased in the city.

You better sit your ass down for this next sentence. I will not dispute the fact that guns deter property crime. Heck Canada's property crime rate is higher than or slightly lower than the US's. So your point is really vaild.

I dont think criminals want to risk getting shot stealing your TV. Especially when they can get cash by mugging you, and not have to worry about you sneaking up on them.

[Shelton_Barrs]

I think the biggest problem in the States is the drug issue, gangs and the open border to Mexico. I would be curious to see what percentage of murders in the U.S. are drug/gang related versus "regular" (if there is such a thing) murder...think we may be on more equal terms. Not sure of the drug policies and gang situation in Canada. I know the drug trade in Florida wasn't violent until the Columbians showed up and decided it was cheaper to kill people than pay them...

check out this link....some pretty interesting stats
http://www.jpfo.org/data-docs.htm

[Shelton_Barrs]

Also, maybe we need to ban Doctors...lol

US Gun Statistics
Various Sources
2-2-5

(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.
(C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.

(Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept. of Health Human Services)

Guns
(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.
Yes, that is 80 million.

(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.
(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.000188.

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.
Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do."

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

[Shelton_Barrs]

Reposting this here from another thread...

Good article from Larry Elder....

Gun-control proponents, predictably, in the wake of the Beltway sniper, urge still more gun-control laws. So, as news watchers sit through another round of softball interviews with gun-control advocates, we humbly offer Second Amendment-challenged hosts some suggestions for questions:

Why does Switzerland, a country that requires a military-style rifle, plus ammunition, in every home, enjoy a very low homicide rate?

Why does Israel, a country where perhaps 10 percent of citizens possess permits to carry concealed weapons, enjoy a very low murder rate?

Why do gun-control proponents fail to mention countries with homicide rates higher than ours, including Brazil and Russia, with very restrictive gun-control laws?

Why does Washington, D.C., a district whose laws make it illegal to buy, possess, transport or acquire a handgun, experience the highest per capita murder rates in the nation?

Why does Canada, a nation of 31 million citizens, with official estimates of 7 million guns -- although other experts place the number at 25 million -- enjoy a low per capita murder rate?

Why did America, a hundred years ago, when citizens could purchase guns anonymously and with few of today's restrictions, enjoy a murder rate of 1.2 per 100,000, versus the 5.5 rate in 2000?

Why don't gun-control proponents talk about the rising murder rate in severely gun-restricted England? "The American murder rate," writes Reason magazine, "which had fluctuated by about 20 percent between 1974 and 1991, was 'in startling free-fall.' We have had nine consecutive years of sharply declining violent crime. As a result the English and American murder rates are converging. In 1981 the American rate was 8.7 times the English rate, in 1995 it was 5.7 times the English rate, and the latest study puts it at 3.5 times." According to Reason, after a few days of crime after crime, "London police are now looking to the New York City police for advice."

Why does The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence's Web site say, "The risk of homicide in the home is three times greater in households with guns"? They fail to mention that Dr. Kellermann, the expert who came up with that figure, now distances himself from it. According to The Wall Street Journal, Dr. Kellermann now says, "A gun can be used to scare away an intruder without a shot being fired," although he admits that such events weren't included in his original study. "Simply keeping a gun in the home may deter some criminals who fear confronting an armed homeowner." Kellermann also admitted, "It is possible that reverse causation accounted for some of the association we observed between gun ownership and homicide -- i.e., in a limited number of cases, people may have acquired a gun in response to a specific threat." In other words, some people obtain guns because they are more likely perpetrators, or they fear becoming victims, of violent crime.

How often do Americans use guns each year for defensive purposes, some of whom -- but for their guns -- might have been killed? Criminologist Gary Kleck estimates that 2.5 million Americans use guns for defensive purposes each year, and approximately 400,000 of them believe someone would have been dead had they not resorted to their defensive use of firearms. A government study put the figure at 1.5 million.

Why do gun control proponents fail to admit the ineffectiveness of the Brady Act? Following the 1994 Brady Act's imposition of a 5-day waiting period for the 32 states previously not subject to such waiting periods, those states should have seen a reduction in crime, compared to the other 18 "control" states. But according to The Journal of the American Medical Association, "Our analyses provide no evidence that implementation of the Brady Act was associated with a reduction in homicide rates. . . . We find no differences in homicide or firearm homicide rates to adult victims in the 32 states directly subject to the Brady Act provisions compared with the remaining control states." The study did find a decrease in gun suicides for men over 55. But the overall suicide rate remained unchanged. Men over 55 simply resorted to other means to kill themselves.

A father recently sent me the following letter: "I had to go to work unexpectedly one night due to an emergency. My 8-year-old daughter was a little worried that I would be leaving her and my wife alone. We live in a very nice and safe neighborhood but nonetheless she was concerned. I jokingly told her that no bad men would come in our house because I put out a sign that read, 'No Bad Men Allowed.' She frowned and immediately responded, 'Daddy, bad men don't do what the signs say. That's why they're bad.'"

Some things are so complicated only a child can figure them out.

[Monty Mikho]

I didnt read all the posts but just wanted to say "I love America"... I can own my gun and in some state even able to use it.. :-D

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Shelton,
Ok and that still leaves the same question I asked earlier. What is the reason that you are 3 times more likely to get murdered in the US than in Canada. What is wrong and what needs to be done to fix that problem?



Everyone Else,
Another interesting thing to consider. That if you remove homicides commited by guns from the statistics, Canada and the US have roughly the same murder rate.

[Monty Mikho]

Shelton,
Ok and that still leaves the same question I asked earlier. What is the reason that you are 3 times more likely to get murdered in the US than in Canada. What is wrong and what needs to be done to fix that problem?



Everyone Else,
Another interesting thing to consider. That if you remove homicides commited by guns from the statistics, Canada and the US have roughly the same murder rate.


If we removed guns from the US stats we would still have the same amount of murders.. they would just use something else to commit it with...

[onefast68]

if it takes owning a gun to feel safe then they should be able to own one..i have at least 30 and plan to buy more...i am am glad texas is a right to carry state as well...last couple of post were good ones.

[Monty Mikho]

"Guns don't kill people, doctors do."



Holy fuck that is some phunny shit :smt082 :smt082 :smt082 :smt082 :smt082

[Shelton_Barrs]

Shelton,
Ok and that still leaves the same question I asked earlier. What is the reason that you are 3 times more likely to get murdered in the US than in Canada. What is wrong and what needs to be done to fix that problem?



Everyone Else,
Another interesting thing to consider. That if you remove homicides commited by guns from the statistics, Canada and the US have roughly the same murder rate.

Ray,
See post 84....I think alot of it is gang/drug related....would like to see a break down of murders by cause and see how they shake out, will see what I can find.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

If we removed guns from the US stats we would still have the same amount of murders.. they would just use something else to commit it with...
You really think that is true?

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Shelton,
Here are some links:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/intimates.htm

Better:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/teens.htm

Looks to me you only need to fear your friends and family



I did see post 84 as well. Canada has one of them ost violent drug gangs in the world, the Laval Hells Angles. Before them it was considered wrong to off your own gang members.

I went to the link too. One thing I have really tried to avoid is stats compiled by a group that is pro or con gun control. I find most of them twist things to their benefit (both sides guilty) and are not trustworthy as real data sources. I do the same thing when discussing evolution, give me the real data and it is a whole different story than what the interpreted data says.

[onefast68]

You really think that is true?

you talk about us not needing to own guns but you own a cannon and guns?maybe more law abiding americans need to own guns so our murder rate will go down..

i wonder if i leave a cannon pointing out my front window if burglars and murderers will stay away????

[Monty Mikho]

You really think that is true?


Yes... Look again at the top murderous countries.. If they had guns their murder rates would go down.. Now go fish another lake.. That one dried up...

[Shelton_Barrs]

You really think that is true?

Yes I do too...check out the crime stats in England, they recently passed some extreme gun control laws, crime rates are up, not down. There is even a push now in England to ban kitchen knives over a certain length...

"England has seen not only a rise in overall violent crime but also an increase in gun crime since the implementation of its draconian gun control measures. This abysmal failure of policy has left the gun control folks scratching their heads. "

http://collegian.ksu.edu/Collegian/article.php?a=6010

[Shelton_Barrs]

Shelton,
Here are some links:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/intimates.htm

Better:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/teens.htm

Looks to me you only need to fear your friends and family



I did see post 84 as well. Canada has one of them ost violent drug gangs in the world, the Laval Hells Angles. Before them it was considered wrong to off your own gang members.

I went to the link too. One thing I have really tried to avoid is stats compiled by a group that is pro or con gun control. I find most of them twist things to their benefit (both sides guilty) and are not trustworthy as real data sources. I do the same thing when discussing evolution, give me the real data and it is a whole different story than what the interpreted data says.

I try to gather as much information as possible from a variety of sources to try and minimize slant...but it looking at the stats from the FBI it looks like Drug and Gang related murders are pretty high...

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Yes I do too...check out the crime stats in England, they recently passed some extreme gun control laws, crime rates are up, not down. There is even a push now in England to ban kitchen knives over a certain length...

"England has seen not only a rise in overall violent crime but also an increase in gun crime since the implementation of its draconian gun control measures. This abysmal failure of policy has left the gun control folks scratching their heads. "

http://collegian.ksu.edu/Collegian/article.php?a=6010
That is a campus newspaper. Not what I would consider a great source for information. Before I even looked for satistics I thought about what they told us here in Canada when we outlawed hand guns. That there would be a spike in the crime rate upwardly for a few years after the implimentation of the laws. And that is exactly what happened with us, and what happened with England. The writer in the campus newspaper, if he was unbiased, would have mentioned that. They would have also mentioned that the rate has dropped back to where it was before and is on a steady decline.

England also includes bombing victims, those that die in containers in ports and things like that in its murder satistics. So we could make all sorts of twisted data if I used 9/11 satistics from New York.

Any how Englands homicide rate is below Canada's and one of the lowest in the world at 1.28 homicides for every 100,000 people. So you are still 6.5 times more likely to be murdered in the US than in England.

[Monty Mikho]

How about homicide rates in Columbia? Guns are not legal there... Or does that not count?

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Monty,
Come on now. My dad has been there and it is a little different way of life. Guns are illegal, ok, but it is nothing to see public citizens with turret mounted machine guns. Fortified compunds for housing. I have never seen anything like it Canada or the US. Which is what my question was about.

You guys are finding it pretty hard to answer my question arent you. Which is ok, I didnt intend it to be easy. Nor will I claim that it is a "proof" about gun laws. But I think you do have to admit it makes you think about it. That is unless your morning news is written by the NRA, LOL.

[Jeremy Glass]

Ok say I am going to rape a girl. Got mind mind set that that is what I going to do. She lives in Toronto so I think the owrst that I am going to get is pepper sprayed. So I grabb her and take my chances. I accidently let her see me, so I lay a beating on her to scare her into not telling anyone.
So girl, same situation, but now in Detriot. I think she might be packing. So instead of just grabbing her I stick a gun to her head. Check to make sure she isnt packing. Rape her. She sees me, I get nervous and pump a few rounds inot her.
Ask the girl if she would rather have been raped and lived, or raped and dead.

As carl keeps saying, its all about awareness. A woman who is carrying a gun is going to have more awareness of her surroundings and is far less likely to be a target.

[Shelton_Barrs]

Monty,
Come on now. My dad has been there and it is a little different way of life. Guns are illegal, ok, but it is nothing to see public citizens with turret mounted machine guns. Fortified compunds for housing. I have never seen anything like it Canada or the US. Which is what my question was about.

You guys are finding it pretty hard to answer my question arent you. Which is ok, I didnt intend it to be easy. Nor will I claim that it is a "proof" about gun laws. But I think you do have to admit it makes you think about it. That is unless your morning news is written by the NRA, LOL.


Ray I am a Lifetime Member of the NRA and proud of it. DO I take everything they say at face value? No, they have an agenda just like the folks at Center to Prevent Hand Gun Violence and the Million Mom March people do. If I ever have time I will research the FBI and Interpol Stats and post what I find. I believe alot of the Murders in the U.S. are drug and/or gang related, however that is hard to prove because all of the states have different ways of classifying crimes, some show only the main issue, some show all issues.

[Monty Mikho]

LMFAO!!! Hey Ray what's the crime rate in Saskatchewan like? Seems they have some big issues there..

Source below: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada)

I
n 2005, there were roughly 2.5 million crimes reported, of which 48% were property related crimes and 12% were violent crimes.[1] (http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/060720/d060720b.htm) However, the number of reported crimes are only a fraction of the total number of crimes committed in the country. It has been estimated that only 52% of thefts, 47% of robberies, 46% of vandalism, 32% of general assaults and 10% of sexual assaults are reported.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada#_note-0)

The crime rate in 2002 was the lowest crime rate in twenty-five years with 7,590 reported incidents per 100,000 people. This number increased to over 8,000 per 100,000 in 2003 and 2004, and dropped slightly in 2005 to 7,761 per 100,000[2] (http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/060720/d060720b.htm). While most types of crimes have shown a modest decrease or have held steady in the past few years, in 2005, murder and attempted murder rates rose to their highest levels in a decade, with 658 and 772 incidents respectively. Even though attempted murder has gone up every year from 2003, compared with 1995 it has decreased 20%. Homicide has only increased by 2% from 1995, but jumped 13% in 2004 and 4% more in 2005.[3] (http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/060720/d060720b.htm). Much of the recent increases have been attributed to drug related turf disputes, mostly in Alberta (70% increase) and Ontario (16% increase) from 2003 to 2005. However, nationwide homicides rates are still about a third less than peak rates seen in the mid-1970s.


OOPS!!!

[Monty Mikho]

The post above pretty much explains why the stats between America and Canada are so far apart.. I guess if we pad our numbers we will be a safer country...

[Monty Mikho]

Everyone please do not use Google, Yahoo or any other seach engine for the next few hours... Looks like Ray has them all on overdrive...

[RRRAAAYYY2]

So you you think every crime in the US gets reported? Or are you suggesting that we dont report murders, maybe just the really visible ones where the bodies are on the street?

Why havent you highlighted this line "However, nationwide homicides rates are still about a third less than peak rates seen in the mid-1970s. " I have to give you credit though, most people would have left it out.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Everyone please do not use Google, Yahoo or any other seach engine for the next few hours... Looks like Ray has them all on overdrive...
LMAO, that is totally not true I will just use the research you find to help me.

[Monty Mikho]

Ray I looked up the US on stats as well.. I didnt see anything on anything we hid to pad our numbers... Maybe you can find that for me...

[Monty Mikho]

and BTW another reason Canada may be a more peaceful place is because you guys are not as religious of a country as we are....

[RRRAAAYYY2]

and BTW another reason Canada may be a more peaceful place is because you guys are not as religious of a country as we are....
I wouldnt say that. We still have bible classes in public schools, still lots of churches and charities, maybe most christians up here dont wear their beliefs on their sleeves.

[Monty Mikho]

I wouldnt say that. We still have bible classes in public schools, still lots of churches and charities, maybe most christians up here dont wear their beliefs on their sleeves.


Religion is being removed from schools here.. and oddly enough crime has gone down..

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Here are some sites for you Monty:
http://www.rainn.org/statistics/index.html (Says sex assualts really dropping, but more unreported than reported)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/09/national/main521212.shtml (Millions of murders go unreported in the US, just kidding didnt read the whole article)

[O.C White]

Ray,

can you tell us why the murder rate is lower in Canada than it is in the USA? Like I said I do not keep up with Canada like obviously you do with the USA s maybe you can tell why.

Sorry if I missed it somewhere in this question and answer period.

But I have my opinion on why the crime rate is high in the U.S. People are not aware or do not care about their suroundings.

9-11 is a typical case of "oh it can't happen here" if it's out there it can happen.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Our crime rates are almost identical except in homicide. Up here you run your mouth some knocks your teeth out. Now if you are real big boy, someone might go looking for a pool cue or bottle to even the fight out.
Criminals dont have to worry about you have a weapon on you, so if they are armed with a bat or a knife, they have you covered.

Almost all the above things dont result in death. (Seen three people die in one punch fights one month, but typically....). When you translate all this stuff to the US, a lot of the times the weapon turns from being a pool cue to a handgun. Criminals dont dare do crimes unless they are armed to the teeth, etc. So when they get scared they dont hit you with a bat, stab you with a knife, instead they shoot you.

Just my opinion. There isnt a statistic I can quote that backs it up either.

[O.C White]

That's all I was looking for Ray was an opinion. Crime is always an opinion to me if that makes sense.

Reason I say that is if you hit a person a certain way with a night-stick it goes from assault to attempted murder. But if you hit them with a 2 x 4 in any matter it is attempted murder if they do not die.

Just like I can't figure out the difference between manslaughter, and involuntary manslaughter. No matter what someone died.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

I was in a fight at a corn roast once, just giving it to an idoit. Then out of nowhere this guy breaks a 2x4 over my the back of my head. I was pissed as I had 2 dozen friends there and it hurt like hell. I will never forget the look on the guys face when I turned around though. Just like a deer in headlights. I have been blind sided at least 10 times with cues. But the best one of them all is:

Was bouncing in the Red Onion (had guys from Ohio come up to it to try us out). There was a major beef with some really tough guys. I was working by myself. We ended in the parking lot, I am on my fourth or fifth guy, other patrons are getting into it, it is 5:30pm, typically Onion. Cops show up because it is outside, I am the first to get arrested. I have nothing left of my staff shirt, covered in blood, long hair and tattooed, and they werent biting the I a was working story. LOL But I was.

The manager has to come down to the police station to ID me, I get back to work at about 7:30. See one of the guys that was involved still in the country side (stripbar oneside/country bar the other). So we call the cops because everyone involved got served papers. We wait and wait. Finally he starts another fight where the old stand up bar was. I bolt over and I am really pissed. Instead of grabbing him all nice I decide I am going to drop kick him into never never land. I jackie chan jump (used to only be 220lb, cant do this now) over a table and my foot is just about to contact the guys jaw, and WHAM. A foot and half down from the ceiling is a plywood canopy with 2x4 trim. Caught the 2x4 part right square in the mouth. The plywood bent my nose all in.

I barely landed on my feet and was majorly enbarrassed. Then one of the guys friends jumped on my back. I held on and ran backwards into a payphone about 10 times.

I will always remember that kick though. Flying through the air I was all proud of myself, LOL.

[onefast68]

Our crime rates are almost identical except in homicide. Up here you run your mouth some knocks your teeth out. Now if you are real big boy, someone might go looking for a pool cue or bottle to even the fight out.
Criminals dont have to worry about you have a weapon on you, so if they are armed with a bat or a knife, they have you covered.

Almost all the above things dont result in death. (Seen three people die in one punch fights one month, but typically....). When you translate all this stuff to the US, a lot of the times the weapon turns from being a pool cue to a handgun. Criminals dont dare do crimes unless they are armed to the teeth, etc. So when they get scared they dont hit you with a bat, stab you with a knife, instead they shoot you.

Just my opinion. There isnt a statistic I can quote that backs it up either.

canada doesn't sound very safe to me..i have never seen someone killed and you have seen 3 in one month.....i will stay in the good ole USA.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

LOL, well sort of not too funny. All three were guys knocked out and fell backwards, hitting their heads on the sidewalk. Wasnt the fight that killed, it was the fall. Not that that mattered in court.

[O.C White]

canada doesn't sound very safe to me..i have never seen someone killed and you have seen 3 in one month.....i will stay in the good ole USA.


Excellent point. I have never seen anyone killed in the USA myself either. I am originally from Texas, and everyone I know there carries, and we all get along very well.

[jester]

newbie here
oh did i mention im a gun.... lover:)!
Im sorry but I could read all 10 pages, ill end up killing my computer in a rage.
You guys should try living up here, you want to see stupid gun laws come here.
Here is one you can only buy a 10 round clip for a semi auto handgun but can only load 9. (all ranges). You can buy a shot gun but only legaly load 3 and there must be a plug. You can buy a 50 round mag for a rifle but can only load 5. WTF.
They are trying to outlaw guns here, because guns kill people.
THey started a law where all guns need to be registered it cost the gove. 1 billion dolllars what did that get them...
The cops like the law because it tells them who has firearms in the house if they have to go there.
I took me months to get my licence. Courses and tests and pratical tests. Oh and money.
See what happened in australia they outlawed guns and the murder rate went up 300% right after so did B&E's. guess what only criminals have guns now. Officer he broke into my house so I threw a fork at him, but he got me good only hit me with 4 of the shot he fired. Could have be worse, could have hit me with the whole clip. all i had was a fork.

Here is a good one in response to a quote on page one.
Box cutters. Well right after 9/11 the security "people" at peason int. where i used to work before that day. Stopped an Aircanada flight attendant and confiscated her nail clipper. However on that same A/C they let on a person wearing a daggar penant around his neck because it was a religious symbol.
what the fuck is this world coming to.

[jester]

Why should i have my guns taken away from me for other peoples stupidity!
Thats like say ok guy no more muscle cars or hot rod period. Now there will be no more street racing deaths...

[Shelton_Barrs]

That is a campus newspaper. Not what I would consider a great source for information.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm

heres one from the BBC in 2005 on the knife ban, not exactly a campus newspaper...and notice they say that violent crime is on the increase..

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/330/7502/1221

heres another one, 1/3 of all murders are now stabbings...

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=579102005
from Scotland....

the fact is you have a certain segment of society that is content to take what they want instead of working for it like most of us do. I'm sure there are alot of societal and economic reason that someone other than me could explain better than I.
Personally I think we need to look at what Guliano was able to do in New York City, I know at that time it was the murder capital of the U.S. and now where is it at on the list?

[onefast68]

Excellent point. I have never seen anyone killed in the USA myself either. I am originally from Texas, and everyone I know there carries, and we all get along very well.

i live in east texas myself.my carry pistol is a s&w 40cal.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Excellent point. I have never seen anyone killed in the USA myself either. I am originally from Texas, and everyone I know there carries, and we all get along very well.
If you have never seen someone get murdered, then why are you so scared that you need to carry? Not that I blame you, the first thing I do when I visit the inlaws in Texas is arm up. Figure if you all have guns, I want a couple too, I have no intentions of being the odd man out.

[O.C White]

If you have never seen someone get murdered, then why are you so scared that you need to carry? Not that I blame you, the first thing I do when I visit the inlaws in Texas is arm up. Figure if you all have guns, I want a couple too, I have no intentions of being the odd man out.

Why do I carry? Real simple, I d not want to be on the 6 o'clock news having some talking head say "this is a case where he wasn't looking for trouble, but trouble found him, Otis Carl White 39 found shot to death in East Dallas, next the weather".

[Jeremy Glass]

If you have never seen someone get murdered, then why are you so scared that you need to carry? Not that I blame you, the first thing I do when I visit the inlaws in Texas is arm up. Figure if you all have guns, I want a couple too, I have no intentions of being the odd man out.

You answered your own question.

Its better to have a gun and not need it then it is to need a gun and not have one.

[O.C White]

You answered your own question.

Its better to have a gun and not need it then it is to need a gun and not have one.


Exactly, I do not want to reach for something and all I get is a handful of lint, or some atmosphere.

[Shelton_Barrs]

Why do I carry? Real simple, I d not want to be on the 6 o'clock news having some talking head say "this is a case where he wasn't looking for trouble, but trouble found him, Otis Carl White 39 found shot to death in East Dallas, next the weather".

Exactly the way I feel...

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Shelton,
None of those links backs up the gun claims made in the first cite. They go one about the knives, but Canada has had those laws since the 60's or 70's. The huge increase in violent crime, what all does it inlcude? You know when they have a bombing that kill over 100 people at once, and they only have 700 homicides in an entire year normally, of course it spikes the statistics.

Here is a quote from your last link ""Many assaults are impulsive, often triggered by alcohol or misuse of other drugs, and the long pointed kitchen knife is an easily available, potentially lethal weapon, particularly in the domestic setting" - Dr Emma Hern, writing in British Medical Journal"

Bang nuts on what I have been trying to get you all to understand. We get into a fight, you are mad at me and lose your temper. You might throw a bottle at me, might hit me with a stick, might stab me, you might shot me. all depends on what weapon is available at the time. lots of half decent people kill other people then regret it after the moment. Statistically I would say it is likely 2/3 of all homicides in the US.

[Shelton_Barrs]

Shelton,
None of those links backs up the gun claims made in the first cite. They go one about the knives, but Canada has had those laws since the 60's or 70's. The huge increase in violent crime, what all does it inlcude? You know when they have a bombing that kill over 100 people at once, and they only have 700 homicides in an entire year normally, of course it spikes the statistics.

Here is a quote from your last link ""Many assaults are impulsive, often triggered by alcohol or misuse of other drugs, and the long pointed kitchen knife is an easily available, potentially lethal weapon, particularly in the domestic setting" - Dr Emma Hern, writing in British Medical Journal"

Bang nuts on what I have been trying to get you all to understand. We get into a fight, you are mad at me and lose your temper. You might throw a bottle at me, might hit me with a stick, might stab me, you might shot me. all depends on what weapon is available at the time. lots of half decent people kill other people then regret it after the moment. Statistically I would say it is likely 2/3 of all homicides in the US.

Ray, the point I have been trying to make is that if England's gun control laws were as successful at reducing their crime rates as many would have us believe why would they be so concernd with outlawing kitchen knives? Because their muder rate is still more or less the same. While they have always had a low gun crime rate they have over time since increases in the violent crime rates to where (not counting rape & murder) their rates for violent crime are now worse than ours.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html


and by the way their has not been a boming that killed over 100 people in Britian is sometime, the 7/7 bombings killed 52 out of 785 murders that year...

[RRRAAAYYY2]

I have spent enough energy on this, LOL. You guys win. If you feel carrying a gun makes your world safer, so be it. Just hope for your sake you are never in the position to need it, as the hero seldomn wins.

As for me I am quite happy living here were there is a small extra chance that my car might get stolen, but 2/3 less a chance of my family being murdered. Heck I would even live in England were there is a way greater chance my car might get stolen, but 7 times less chance I will get murdered. You guys can continue to live in the US where your cars are safer, too bad your families arent. :) (One last low blow)

[Shelton_Barrs]

I have spent enough energy on this, LOL. You guys win. If you feel carrying a gun makes your world safer, so be it. Just hope for your sake you are never in the position to need it, as the hero seldomn wins.

As for me I am quite happy living here were there is a small extra chance that my car might get stolen, but 2/3 less a chance of my family being murdered. Heck I would even live in England were there is a way greater chance my car might get stolen, but 7 times less chance I will get murdered. You guys can continue to live in the US where your cars are safer, too bad your families arent. :) (One last low blow)


Why you giving up? I am enjoying this! But as far as last blow goes, my family is quite safe thank you, the area I live in for 2003 (latest I could find) had 0 murders/non-negligent manslaughters, 0 forcible rapes, 0 robberies and 0 aggravated assualts.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Walnut Grove, that the town of 710 people? If so then statistically you should only have a murder every 23 years. So you should feel safe. Same size town in Canada would have one murder once in your lifetime, and same size town in England most people would never hear of a murder in their lifetime.

I am giving up Ias I am getting tired of the dishonest stats (my mention of 100 in a bombing was more figurative, but looks bad and I apologize). But as I bounced from site to site there is too much BS on the net. It is just getting frustrating.

And besides if I could show you 100% positive proof that by carrying a firearm you were going to die 10 years sooner than if you didnt, would you stop carrying?

Do you have a sense of humor? Are you offended by stereotype humor, if so dont read this as it is only meant in fun. My original reply: When you come from a town of under 1000 in Alabama why would you expect there to be anything but 0 forceable rapes. Afterall everyone is family so it would all be consentual (sp).

[onefast68]

but if you live in canada,don't go to bar or any place where they are drinking..you stand a good chance to getting 1 punch killed...3in one month...not good odds..

[RRRAAAYYY2]

And you would be best to remember that. LOL

[Shelton_Barrs]

Walnut Grove, that the town of 710 people? If so then statistically you should only have a murder every 23 years. So you should feel safe. Same size town in Canada would have one murder once in your lifetime, and same size town in England most people would never hear of a murder in their lifetime.

I am giving up Ias I am getting tired of the dishonest stats (my mention of 100 in a bombing was more figurative, but looks bad and I apologize). But as I bounced from site to site there is too much BS on the net. It is just getting frustrating.

And besides if I could show you 100% positive proof that by carrying a firearm you were going to die 10 years sooner than if you didnt, would you stop carrying?

Do you have a sense of humor? Are you offended by stereotype humor, if so dont read this as it is only meant in fun. My original reply: When you come from a town of under 1000 in Alabama why would you expect there to be anything but 0 forceable rapes. Afterall everyone is family so it would all be consentual (sp).
I love humor, always figured if you can't laugh at yourself you got no business laughing at anyone else...And no I would not stop carrying, guess I am like people that smoke their life away...but the thing is where I live, almost everybody carries, seeing a rifle or shotgun in the back window of a truck is not out of the oridinary. Now what you don't see is a bar or strip club or liquior store everytime you turn around either. The main reason I do carry is because I work in alot of major cities and work and travel nights. Some places I go after midnight (for work) the cops don't go if they don't have too.
Now while doing some reading I did come across a couple good articles that tried to explain a good bit about the possible cause in homicide rates between different groups of people and guns where a part of the equation. No doubt they are much more effective at killing than knives or clubs, but the article was trying to get to the cause of murder, what triggers it. And it was pretty good at showing drugs, alchol, econimics and the disparity in income, education, social issues, etc that all play a part in not just homicide but crime rates in general. Do you realise that the homice rate for whites is 3.3 per 100k while for blacks it is 6 times higher at 19.6 per 100k? And for the most part (where races are known for both victim and offender) murder is intra-racial, 86% of whites killed by whites and 94% of blacks killed by blacks. Not trying to start any kind of racial B.S. and the answers aren't simple but something needs to be done about it. It is a shame that any segment of our society has those kind of statistics.

If anyone is interested in looking at the FBI statistics here's the link....

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/homtrnd.htm#contents

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict.htm

[RRRAAAYYY2]

I also found the stats about how most people knew their murderers kind of scarey. I think the real odds of someone you dont know attacking you, or killing you are astronomically low. I wonder how close they wouldbe to accidental deaths by weapons?

And asI think it was monty said along time ago, murders by drunk drivers out do everyone.

[Shelton_Barrs]

I also found the stats about how most people knew their murderers kind of scarey. I think the real odds of someone you dont know attacking you, or killing you are astronomically low. I wonder how close they wouldbe to accidental deaths by weapons?

And asI think it was monty said along time ago, murders by drunk drivers out do everyone.

I saw those too and kind of opened my eyes a little as well. I'll have to do some checking on the accidental deaths, but I dont think they are that high. But people have some pretty ingenious ways of killing themselves accidentally.
And for the record I very seldom carry when I am at home, no real need. But some of the places that I go to work at, you can bet I am carrying....

[Shelton_Barrs]

Talk about a surprise...here is what I pulled from the CDC webste...

http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html

Unintentional Deaths 2004

Total 112,012

Posioning 20,950
Motor Vehicle Occupant 19,965
Fall 18,807
Pedestrian 5,976
Suffocation 5,891
Motorcyclist 3,940
Drowning 3,308
Medical Care 2,513
Natural/Enviromental 1,359
Pedal Cyclist 843
Machinary 795
Firearm 649

I would have thought cars would have been by far number 1 and based on what you hear about accidental gun deaths I was expecting a higher number than 649. Those numbers are for all ages.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Here is another good one, it is too bad the data includes policeman on the job as well as victims. Here are some points to think about: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/hvfsdaft.txt

16,000 murders in the US
328 was the number of victims murdered who did not know the attacker. Watch your friends and family :)
645 accidental deaths by handguns, means you are almost twice as likely to accidentally kill yourself that be murdered by someone you dont know. So fear your self too. :)

82,500 is the number of people and police that defended themselves with a handgun in one year.
341,000 incidents of handguns stolen in the same time period. That is minimum number, some may have been 2 or more each time. But by having handguns around, you are equipping criminals four times more than you are defending yourself

Really scarey is the tohught that 7,900 guns were taking from people during a violent crime. Means the victim had the gun but couldnt use it and the attacker took the weapon.

Surprisingly only 17 percent of attackers ever fire at their victim.

Dont know if I interpreted everything correctly, if I didnt I stand to be corrected. But it certainly looks like your friends, family, and yourself are the people you need to protect yourself against. Criminals are way down on the list people that want to kill you. LOL

[Shelton_Barrs]

I have seen it claimed (correctly) that you are much more likely to be killed by someone you know than you don't. But, as a percentage I wonder how many criminals are being killed by criminals? What I am trying to say is if I associate myself with thugs how much more likely am I to be killed than if I don't? I would think who you allow yourself to associate with would dictate who you need to watch more...

[Shelton_Barrs]

Some more interesting stats for 2005...

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/expanded_information/murder_homicide.html

Looks like strangers are slightly more dangerous than family.

22.4 percent of victims were slain by family members; 25.4 percent were murdered by strangers. But what ever you do don't upset the wife, they are much more likely to kill than any other member of the family, but must only be killing their husbands, the numbers for mothers are much lower...

For 2005 there were 14680 murders...1823 by some member of the family (594 were by Wife), 3210 by an acquaintance, 324 by friend, 152 by boyfriend, 461 by girlfriend (what is it about wives and girlfriends?), 86 by neighbor, only 4 by employee and 6 by employer, 2070 by stranger (compared to 5966 by someone you knew) but the majority are by unknowns at 6724. I am guessing that unknowns are unsolved cases, wonder how those would breakdown?I would guess more strangers than not. But it looks like you need to watch everybody and try real hard not to piss off the wife or girlfriend and for those of you dumb enough to have both I would say be real careful...

This is interesting...
Law enforcement reported 533 justifiable homicides. Of those, law enforcement officers justifiably killed 341 individuals, and private citizens justifiably killed 192 individuals.

[taxman]

You know what, I think we are going to need an Excel spreadsheet for this stuff. There is just to many people left to kill.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

I have seen it claimed (correctly) that you are much more likely to be killed by someone you know than you don't. But, as a percentage I wonder how many criminals are being killed by criminals? What I am trying to say is if I associate myself with thugs how much more likely am I to be killed than if I don't? I would think who you allow yourself to associate with would dictate who you need to watch more...
My experience:
From when I was 16 till until I was 32 1/2 years old I was in 1512 fights. I never would sit any where in a building unless my back was to the wall, wouldnt use a urinial in a bar only a stall, and bascially slept with one eye open. Seen lots of bad stuff, and did lots of bad stuff. Been in real life threatening positions at least 1/2 dozen times.
Then 8 eight years ago I became a Chrisitan and have only been in one fight sort of. I carried my neighbor off my side of the street by throat after he threatened my wife. Felt bad afterwards cause he thought he was going to die (I was choking him), so I built up an alternator for his truck. My first instinct is still to sit in the corner, LOL, but it doesnt bother me when I dont. Nowadays I sleep with both eyes shut. I dont worry much about anything, with the exception I still wont start my vehicles with the door closed a lot of the times. I havent been in any scarey situations and I really doubt one of brothers or sisters in Christ intends to wack me.

[confused]

monty the answer to all of ray2 questions from the first to the last post is easy canada's money isn't worth shit and most of the people are french and we all know how the french handle things. run and let the use fight for us.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

monty the answer to all of ray2 questions from the first to the last post is easy canada's money isn't worth shit and most of the people are french and we all know how the french handle things. run and let the use fight for us.
We have never gotten the "use" to fight for us. Now with my grammar and spelling prowlness, I am going to pay for that badly.

In all seriousness though, please dont confuse French people from France with French people from Quebec. The Quebec flag is blue and white, they make great maple syrup, and they are the world's no. 1 source for blonde slutty table dancers, where as France's flag is plain white.

As for Canadians running? The is pretty funny as my platoon from when I was in the Army was named after the battle at Festerbert (sp). An interesting battle in which Canadians didnt run, everyone else ran, taking off and leaving us behind.

Same thing happened when China joined North Korea in the Korean War. If I recall everyone took off leaving the front line to Canadians that time as well.

How did Canada react with the Iranian Hostage Crisis, dont think we ran when the crap hit the fan there either.

One statistic my Regiment carries, that I dont know of another being able to say is: The Royal Canadian Regiment (RCR) has never given up an inch of ground in Battle. I think there is another regiment that can say the same thing though, they are called the PPCLI, and guess where they are from too. Should note we only have two regiments.

Dont get me wrong, we Canadians do realize we do enjoy a certain level of safety being located next to the most powerful army in the world. Just dont think we run from anything, as history is proof that we dont. :)

[Monty Mikho]

Im sorry to bring this arguerment to a close.. But I think its time to release the facts.. Sorry Ray!!!

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/lehrer200406291205.asp

[RRRAAAYYY2]

Ok Monty, there were no facts in that, so where is the real link?

[confused]

well monty i think the post is over

[Monty Mikho]

Ok Monty, there were no facts in that, so where is the real link?


Are you telling me crime rates and murders have gone down every year since they have banned guns?

[O.C White]

Im sorry to bring this arguerment to a close.. But I think its time to release the facts.. Sorry Ray!!!

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/lehrer200406291205.asp


Check and mate.

[confused]

there is no guns in prison and guys get killed every day. we must ban ??????? to stop the killing.

[Monty Mikho]

This is well proven now in this thread.. I didnt want to post everything twice so I will post a link to where Ray's facts and sources are being used against him.. Long story short? Crime has gone up in Canada in staggering numbers

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23400&page=2

[steve hurt]

An interesting one in my area. I understand a kid is dead but maybe other potential criminals will learn from this????????

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/117740407596600.xml&coll=2&thispage=1

[RRRAAAYYY2]

An interesting one in my area. I understand a kid is dead but maybe other potential criminals will learn from this????????

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/117740407596600.xml&coll=2&thispage=1
Pretty interesting, he shot the unarmed teenager and missed the armed one? They will learn a good lesson though, next time just the guy first so he doesnt have a chance to draw on you. Best news is after three years of the law one crime was finally deterred by it.

[RRRAAAYYY2]

This is well proven now in this thread.. I didnt want to post everything twice so I will post a link to where Ray's facts and sources are being used against him.. Long story short? Crime has gone up in Canada in staggering numbers

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23400&page=2
Ok maybe my computer sends me to the wrong link, but where did you post anything that shows that crime has gone up staggering in Canada?

[confused]

ray you need to read it again. it was the first time that someone was shot and killed by a legal ccw holder not the first time a crime was detarred.you sound like your goverment. goes to what we are saying the legal people don't do the killing we just save are own lives. the only bad thing about the guy shooting the kid is he didn't get both. your words mean nothing, when your shot 3 times by some little fuck gang banger then you have the right to talk you crap. i was shot by a gun that was bought off the street and if you think that banning all guns would have stop that your bi-poler.

[confused]

-----------------------------------------------------------------
High Gun Low Gun
Ownership Countries Ownership Countries

Country Suicide Homicide Total* Country Suicide Homicide Total*

Finland 24.4 2.86 27.2 Romania 66.2 n.a. 66.2
Swtzrlnd 24.45 1.13 25.58 France 21.8 4.36 26.16
U.S. 12.2 7.59 19.79 W.Grmny 20.37 1.48 21.85
Israel** 6 2 8 Japan 20.3 0.9 21.2

* The figures listed in the table are the rates per 100,000 people.
** Israel's total violence rate is lower than the total rates in
England/Wales or Canada.

Source for table: Don B. Kates, Jr., Guns, Murders, and the
Constitution: A Realistic Assessment of Gun Control, (1990):42.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

B. Myth #2: If one has a gun in the home, one is three times more likely to be killed than if there is no gun present


1. Dr. Edgar Suter has pointed out that studies which make such claims are flawed because they fail to consider the number of lives saved by guns. That is, such claims ignore the vast number of non-lethal defensive uses with firearms. (70)
2. Criminologists have found that citizens use firearms as often as 2.4 million times every year in self-defense. In over 90% of these defensive uses, citizens merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off the attacker. (71) C. Myth #3: Most homicides are committed by otherwise law-abiding people who end up killing a friend or relative


1. In fact, seventy percent of the murders are committed by criminals who have prior felonies. (72) This number does not include criminals who have plea-bargained their felonies down to lesser charges.
2. Sixty-five percent of murder victims themselves have prior felonies. (73)
3. The problem? The criminal justice system is a revolving door which continues to throw violent offenders back onto the street. For example, murderers serve an average of 7 years in jail. Rapists serve an average of 5 years. (74) ENDNOTES

[confused]

COMPARISONS AMONG NATIONs

Anti-gun crusaders are addicted to comparing the United States to foreign nations, a comparison that probably constitutes the single most pernicious source of misinformation and misunderstanding of gun regulation issues. This misinformation and misunderstanding (both are also involved in comparisons across time) result from a grotesque mix of statistical misrepresentation with partisan selection and presentation, and from sheer historical ignorance.
Such comparisons are used to argue that gun ownership causes crime, which supposedly results in the United States having more homicides per capita than selected other countries that virtually prohibit gun ownership. In fact, determinants of the relative amounts of violence in nations are socio-cultural and institutional. The effects of such basic determinants cannot be offset by any gun control strategy, no matter how well-crafted and rigorous. Reducing availability of any other kind of weapon, including guns, cannot radically decrease crime because the number of guns that are illegally available will always suffice for those who are determined to obtain and misuse them.

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Concealment of the Declining American Murder Trend
Anti-gun sages have seized on a new device so they do not have to deal with embarrassing facts. They conceal declining American homicides (particularly gun homicides) by combining suicide and murder statistics, producing an "Intentional Homicide" rate that they then claim to be "caused" by widespread gun ownership.Yet these same anti-gun academics continue to compare the American murder rate (alone) to the murder rates of specially selected foreign countries--without mentioning that virtually every country they select to compare has an enormously higher suicide rate than the United States. For instance, Prof. Baker, the originator of the combined homicide-suicide approach, compares American and Danish murder rates, placing great emphasis on the fact that the American rate is higher by about 7 per 100,000 population. Yet Baker somehow forgets to mention that making the same comparison of suicide rates would show the Danish have 16.5 more deaths per 100,000 than the Americans. Nor, of course, does Baker mention that when suicide and murder figures are combined, the Danish death rate per 100,000 is almost 50 percent higher than the American.
Despite their reliance on international murder comparisons, none of the anti-gun academics who apply the combined murder-suicide approach (in describing American figures) follow the combined approach when making those international comparisons. Could that omission have anything to do with the following facts that emerge from the International Intentional Homicide Table on the next page? Of 18 nations for which figures were available, the United States ranks only eleventh in intentional homicide. The U.S. combined homicide and suicide rate is less than half the suicide rate alone in gun-banning Hungary and less than one-third the suicide rate alone of gun-banning Rumania. New Zealand ranks sixteenth despite a rate of gun ownership that far exceeds the U.S. rate. The lowest rate on the table is for Israel, a country that actually encourages and requires almost universal gun ownership.
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