America is safe now since 9/11

[Monty Mikho]

Since we took on Iraq we have not had a terrorist attack. The right wing always uses this as a defence in their blinded ways. Now what we need to think about is why would we be attacked? Bin Laden's aim was to destroy America and its people and we dont need his help because this administration is doing a fine job of it. Is he not getting his way right now without even moving a finger or spending one dime? Carl (Gunny) often says "why get Bin Laden? For mental masterbation?" Well it is not only for mental masturbation!! It is because he is still a huge threat upon the US.. But why should he do a thing when our fearless leader is costing Americans their lives without Bin Ladens assistance? Does this not mean that when we think everything is said and done Bin Laden wont carry out his plot? You better bet your ass he will!! So it seems great and fine now.. But like I said.. whats the use of a terrorist attack when we have killed over 3000 troops and over 24,000 wounded in Iraq alone!! This is becoming a dream to Bin Laden.. The numbers speak for themselves!!!

[Bluenoser]

Okay, okay...Settle down, Michael Moore.:rolleyes:

[Ed-vancedEngines]

Watch the TV program 24 and then know that we are or can be in very much threat danger of attack. We are too vulnerable in too many places and too many different easy ways. I know of no way to fully protect us.

Ed

[Monty Mikho]

Okay, okay...Settle down, Michael Moore.:rolleyes:


The typical response from you that holds no value..

[Bluenoser]

Where do you get this crap? You are starting to sound like a freakin fortune cookie!

[Monty Mikho]

Where do you get this crap? You are starting to sound like a freakin fortune cookie!

Did you even read the post?

[Monty Mikho]

Remember the reason we went after Saddam was because he was still a threat on us (or thats what we were told).. Is Bin Laden no longer a threat? And if the answer is yes what makes you think that? Because we have not been attacked since? If so.. please revert back to original post of thread!! If not please move forward

[MagicRatt]

...good stuff here

[O.C White]

Mental Masturbation. I don't need to say anything else. Why because it is true. Look how you all felt when we arrested a blind man for blowing up the towers. Yeah that is really brilliant arresting a blind man, could have saved a lot of money arresting Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder and got the same effect you got from arresting the blind muslim. The towers still fell. Get over it. Move on there is nothing to see here.

[Monty Mikho]

Mental Masturbation. I don't need to say anything else. Why because it is true. Look how you all felt when we arrested a blind man for blowing up the towers. Yeah that is really brilliant arresting a blind man, could have saved a lot of money arresting Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder and got the same effect you got from arresting the blind muslim. The towers still fell. Get over it. Move on there is nothing to see here.


Why are we in Iraq? Because Saddam was still a threat? Would he had still been a threat if we offed him in 1991? Would that had been mental masterbation? or does that only hold true for Bin Laden??? Someone who clearly was blamed for several attacks.. 2 on US soil... How many more times before it becomes something other than mental masterbation? when 3,000 or more are killed? You tell me Carl..

[O.C White]

Why are we in Iraq? Because Saddam was still a threat? Would he had still been a threat if we offed him in 1991? Would that had been mental masterbation? or does that only hold true for Bin Laden??? Someone who clearly was blamed for several attacks.. 2 on US soil... How many more times before it becomes something other than mental masterbation? when 3,000 or more are killed? You tell me Carl..

Hey Monty,

you eat a big bowl of stupid in Utah? General Powell called off the further attack into Iraq you know "the highway of death" pictures and all that? Bush One listened to his Generals it was the right call to make.

What was mental masturbation was all this hogwash about Saddam being contained. Saddam being in a box. Saddam was no threat. Yeah Saddam was no threat and tear gas has the wrong name.

[bigpoppapreston]

here's what the the bushies say that people need to pay attention to, " we're fighting them over there (iraq) so we won't fight them here, and as soon as we cut and run there, they will follow us home over here".

how long we'll be committed to this disastorous war before we wise up and admit that the insurgents and terrorists in iraq have way more patience than we do and will wait it out.

either we are going to occupy iraq forever and hope that we don't get hit again or pull out and hope that we don't get hit again.

because with over 1 million illegals entering our country annually, and we don't know who they are, where they're from and what their motives, we're gambling with our lives.

how many shipping containers shipped here in the u.s. are being inspected?

i would rather have our troops protecting our borders here in the united states than over there in iraq.

i want us to win in iraq.

sadly i do not believe we can; and this is the mood of america. most people in america say that we cannot win in iraq.

it goes back to truth and who can handle it!

[Monty Mikho]

Carl please answer this.. Can Bin Laden ever plan and have carried out another attack on the US? He has two strikes already... Are you on the same mentality as the guys in Washington thinking life is a baseball game and give everyone 3 strikes before doing something? Please respond and not dance around this one like you always do so well with direct questions!!!

[O.C White]

I answered your stupid question Monty. You know how to reach me if you want the details.

Why aren't you talking about the General under investigation about Pat Tillman's death? Oh because he is the general incharge of all the Special Operation Units looking for Bin Laden?

You think just because he is caught it is going to change anything? you do not need mental masturbation, you need to masturbate period.

[Monty Mikho]

I answered your stupid question Monty. You know how to reach me if you want the details.

Why aren't you talking about the General under investigation about Pat Tillman's death? Oh because he is the general incharge of all the Special Operation Units looking for Bin Laden?

You think just because he is caught it is going to change anything? you do not need mental masturbation, you need to masturbate period.


So why not just give up now? If you are not willing to get the head terrorist.. why waste your time with the amatures... Again this war is no different than the war on drugs.. Keep arresting them thugs on the corners.. cuz when you turn your head the head guys will just find yet another thug to sell the shit!!!

This thread is about what i posted.. lets keep on track here Mr. Gunny!!!

[O.C White]

So why not just give up now? If you are not willing to get the head terrorist.. why waste your time with the amatures... Again this war is no different than the war on drugs.. Keep arresting them thugs on the corners.. cuz when you turn your head the head guys will just find yet another thug to sell the shit!!!

This thread is about what i posted.. lets keep on track here Mr. Gunny!!!

We did not get Hitler either so now what? We didn't get the head guy in charge of Japan either now what? But we got plenty of his thugs as you say.

Try another avenue bozo, you just ran into a dead end street.

[O.C White]

Come on Monty keep up.

[Monty Mikho]

We did not get Hitler either so now what? We didn't get the head guy in charge of Japan either now what? But we got plenty of his thugs as you say.

Try another avenue bozo, you just ran into a dead end street.

Hitler lived in Germany during the attack.. The guy in charge of Japan lived in Japan the time of the attack.. Bin Laden lived in Afghanistan when we invaded Iraq... Do you see any difference? or not? Again We are making Bin Laden a very happy man.. We are spending billions to kill and hurting our own people... at levels that he could only dream of.. The only person winning any war is Bin Laden.. We are playing right into his hand!!!

[O.C White]

Hitler lived in Germany during the attack.. The guy in charge of Japan lived in Japan the time of the attack.. Bin Laden lived in Afghanistan when we invaded Iraq... Do you see any difference? or not? Again We are making Bin Laden a very happy many.. We are spending billions to kill and hurting our own people... at levels that he could only dream of.. The only person winning any war is Bin Laden.. We are playing right into his hand!!!

That's the best you can come up with? You better check your history, Germany never attacked us. You're slipping Money My-ho.

Oh and why is it so convinient to trust the intel on where Bin Laden lived but the same intel that says WMD's were in Iraq is a bald face liar?

[bigpoppapreston]

capturing or killing bin laden will just be executing justice for the crimes he committed.

it will in no ways change things now. clinton and bush haven't captured or killed him this far and have netted into his breeding of of his evil ideaology of hate and terror.

where they wasn't (al queada) in iraq before this quadmire begun, they definately are there now and in multiple other places around the world.

so capturing or killing bin laden would just be like capturing and killing saddam. nothing changed.

in fact capturing or killing bin laden would be even less important than the capture and killing of saddam. hey after all, saddam, albeit that he didn't kill 3000+ american civilians on september 11, 2001, he wanted to kill daddy bush.

thats why bush said that he wasn't concerned where bin laden was is because he had toppled saddam hussein.

[O.C White]

They can be anywhere in the world they like long as it isn't Main Street USA.

[Monty Mikho]

That's the best you can come up with? You better check your history, Germany never attacked us. You're slipping Money My-ho.

Oh and why is it so convinient to trust the intel on where Bin Laden lived but the same intel that says WMD's were in Iraq is a bald face liar?


Where did I say Germany attacked us? I said during the attack!! Not on us jack ass!!! us on them!!!

[Cooperacing]

Lol, you guys are too funny. Here's my question: What happened to building #7? Lol..........:confused:

[O.C White]

Lol, you guys are too funny. Here's my question: What happened to building #7? Lol..........:confused:

Oh boy here we go again.

[Monty Mikho]

CARL CAN BIN LADEN HAVE ATTACK 3 CARRIED OUT?

[Cooperacing]

Oh and another question: What's wrong with the bill that Congress just passed and the President swears he is going to veto? Is he gonna "NOT SUPPORT THE TROOPS?"

[Monty Mikho]

Lol, you guys are too funny. Here's my question: What happened to building #7? Lol..........:confused:


Nothing important in building 7.. just some CIA files showing them responsible for the majority of drug trafficking into this country... No big deal tho..

[Cooperacing]

Seriously though, Where is Bin Laden?:smt082 :smt082 :smt082

[Monty Mikho]

Seriously though, Where is Bin Laden?:smt082 :smt082 :smt082


No time to ask questions.. We need the oil... I mean democracy in Iraq

[O.C White]

Where did I say Germany attacked us? I said during the attack!! Not on us jack ass!!! us on them!!!

And we still never got him so now what? We never got Toe-Joe either so now what?

If I didn't know any better it sounds like you guys want us to lose in Iraq.

Some of you guys say we left Afghanistan, no your beloved NATO took over in Afghanistan, and as soon as they did the Taliban all of a sudden had a resurgence, and the good old Gates start blabbing about a spring offensive.

Rummy might have been a dick but he didn't tell when operations would be going. Why aren't some of you crying about the Army Genral asking the marines to leave Afghanistan? Don't hear you whining about that.

Get the heck out of my face with your crap. I'm done, I can only handle so much retardness in one night. This is like arguing about religion.

[Monty Mikho]

And we still never got him so now what? We never got Toe-Joe either so now what?

If I didn't know any better it sounds like you guys want us to lose in Iraq.

Some of you guys say we left Afghanistan, no your beloved NATO took over in Afghanistan, and as soon as they did the Taliban all of a sudden had a resurgence, and the good old Gates start blabbing about a spring offensive.

Rummy might have been a dick but he didn't tell when operations would be going. Why aren't some of you crying about the Army Genral asking the marines to leave Afghanistan? Don't hear you whining about that.

Get the heck out of my face with your crap. I'm done, I can only handle so much retardness in one night. This is like arguing about religion.


Come back when you have more answers than re-directions...

[Cooperacing]

Do you guys think we are going to get Bin Laden? Seriously......

[O.C White]

Sorry slee-stack but I do not have any re-directions. Any direction I give is short and to the point and well understood. My shooters tell me so. Bite that.

[O.C White]

Do you guys think we are going to get Bin Laden? Seriously......


Yeah we are going to get him, every one will sit around and have a circle jerk with Monty as the pivot man, and then a mall will vaporize.

[hsutton]

Anybody who thinks the Arabs did 9/11 need to take out a new lease on the Brooklin Bridge. Any one who only has a single engine pilots license can't possibly hit something the size of those buildings. More and more people are realizing the holes in the bogus stories about the trade centers. Building #3 wasn't event hit by anything, but still fell down. Where were all the fighter-interceptors that are stationed in the air force bases near NYC and why didn't they splash those jet liners. There was a twenty five minute interval where air traffic controllers knew there was a deviation of their flight paths. The Air Force is flying unmanned drones in Iraq from a command and control center in Nevada so guiding in a couple of air liners to those targets with Global Hawk would have been a piece of cake. The twin towers was nothing more than a diversion created to get the American public to allow the passage of the Patroit Act and more serious legislation to take your freedoms away from you. So kiss your rights goodby, next it will be your guns and property they get, while you sleep and worry about some Arabs. Just Google up " Illuminati and the Rothchilds" and see who the real terrorists are. There are only five countries in the world that are not under their "monetary control" and anyone who opposes their plan they are forced into a depression or war to get them in line. Least you think i'm just a crackpot, think about this, the five remaining countries to be brought their thumb are Iran (next on Bush's list), Sudan (not very important), Cuba (In an state of economic depression since the early sixties), Libya (not a real power), and North Korea (badly depressed for the last fourty years). This plan of taking over control of the whole world's economy has been in motion since the late sixteen hundred's and it's almost complete now. In 2001 Rumsfeld gave a speech on the U.S. military having lost over 2.3 trillion dollars, which is $8000 for every person in the U.S.). That was 9/10/2001. The next day was 9/11, so connect the dots. The people in power now needed a diversion to get everybodies mind off of where all that money went. "Wake up now" and prepare yourselves for what's coming, it isn't going to be pretty.

[Cooperacing]

Anybody who thinks the Arabs did 9/11 need to take out a new lease on the Brooklin Bridge. Any one who only has a single engine pilots license can't possibly hit something the size of those buildings. More and more people are realizing the holes in the bogus stories about the trade centers. Building #3 wasn't event hit by anything, but still fell down. Where were all the fighter-interceptors that are stationed in the air force bases near NYC and why didn't they splash those jet liners. There was a twenty five minute interval where air traffic controllers knew there was a deviation of their flight paths. The Air Force is flying unmanned drones in Iraq from a command and control center in Nevada so guiding in a couple of air liners to those targets with Global Hawk would have been a piece of cake. The twin towers was nothing more than a diversion created to get the American public to allow the passage of the Patroit Act and more serious legislation to take your freedoms away from you. So kiss your rights goodby, next it will be your guns and property they get, while you sleep and worry about some Arabs. Just Google up " Illuminati and the Rothchilds" and see who the real terrorists are. There are only five countries in the world that are not under their "monetary control" and when anyone opposes their plan they are forced into a depression or war to get them in line. Least you think i'm just a crackpot think about this for a while; the five remaining countries to be brought their thumb are Iran (next on Bushes list), Sudan (not very important), Cuba (In an state of economic depression since the early sixties), Libya (not a real power), and North Korea (badly depressed for the last fourty years). This plan of taking over control of the whole world's economy has been in motion since the late sixteen hundred's and is almost complete now. In 2001 Rumsfeld gave a speech on the U.S. military having lost over 2 trillion dollars. That was 9/10/2001. The next day was 9/11, so connect the dots. The people in power now needed a diversion to get everybodies mind off of where all that money went.

O.K. I need a translator...............:smt089

[O.C White]

No I don't think you are a crackpot. You fully qualify for nutcase.

[Monty Mikho]

Sorry slee-stack but I do not have any re-directions. Any direction I give is short and to the point and well understood. My shooters tell me so. Bite that.


For the 3RD time

DO YOU THINK IT IS POSSIBLE FOR BIN LADEN TO PLAN AND HAVE A 3rd ATTACK ON THE US?


and how many did Saddam have on US soil to justify such hate and anger to making it a must to capture and kill him.. Some answers please..

[Cooperacing]

For the 3RD time

DO YOU THINK IT IS POSSIBLE FOR BIN LADEN TO PLAN AND HAVE A 3rd ATTACK ON THE US?


and how many did Saddam have on US soil to justify such hate and anger to making it a must to capture and kill him.. Some answers please..

These are some very good questions.

[O.C White]

For the 3RD time

DO YOU THINK IT IS POSSIBLE FOR BIN LADEN TO PLAN AND HAVE A 3rd ATTACK ON THE US?


and how many did Saddam have on US soil to justify such hate and anger to making it a must to capture and kill him.. Some answers please..

Anything is possible. You have guys that do not know they are suppose to have a clear front sight tip, so anything is possible.

That answer your question? If he wants to anything can happen. I would have never believed an American blew up the Murrah building.

[Monty Mikho]

Anything is possible. You have guys that do not know they are suppose to have a clear front sight tip, so anything is possible.

That answer your question? If he wants to anything can happen. I would have never believed an American blew up the Murrah building.

Would you agree if someone has committed crimes of the same caliber 2 times.. there will be more than likely a 3rd time if given the chance or time? Especially when said person makes this public?

[Monty Mikho]

Bin Laden is more than Mental Masterbation... He is a known threat.. and every known threat should be taken care of.. Isnt that what the war on terror is all about? or have we lost track already?

[O.C White]

Here is my take on Saddam and this is just an opinion. Saddam died knowing a whole lot more than we give him credit for.

Everyone is saying civil war this and civil war that in Iraq. Both sides Sunni and Shia are pretty well evenly armed for the first time as far as I can remember. What's wrong with a little Civil War I remember us having one, and no other war has claimed more lives that the Civil war right here on our soil.

[Monty Mikho]

SIGH!!! answer some questions!!!

[O.C White]

Would you agree if someone has committed crimes of the same caliber 2 times.. there will be more than likely a 3rd time if given the chance or time? Especially when said person makes this public?

Geez you become a bigger pain in the butt by the second. Monty what happened after we captured Saddam in Iraq? Monty what happened after we killed his two sons? Monty what happened after we killed Zarqawi?

Monty what's going to happen when we capture or kill Bin Laden? Oh I know what will happen, I can read the headline already:

"American City Streets Covered in White Sticky Paste After Capture Of Bin Laden"

[O.C White]

SIGH!!! answer some questions!!!

Who are you LT. Caffey? You can't handle the truth. You want an opinion so you can have an un-civil discussion. Well guess what there is plenty of sand to be pounded in Utah sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo GO POUND SAND

[hsutton]

Lol, you guys are too funny. Here's my question: What happened to building #7? Lol..........:confused: Exactly. Why does everybody forget about the fact that this building wasn't even hit by an airplane or debris? I guess the fact that if you tell a lie long enough and often enough it will be thought to be the truth.

[O.C White]

Exactly. Why does everybody forget about the fact that this building wasn't even hit by an airplane or debris? I guess the fact that if you tell a lie long enough and often enough it will be thought to be the truth.

So if it wasn't hit by anything, how it fall? They showed it live falling, and there was no explosion, so what the building just get tired of standing or do we have silent explosives? Oh wait if it's silent it can't explode.

So much for that theory.

[O.C White]

Well I am out, you all have fun. Monty stop shooting so much before you get lead poisoning.

[Monty Mikho]

Geez you become a bigger pain in the butt by the second. Monty what happened after we captured Saddam in Iraq? Monty what happened after we killed his two sons? Monty what happened after we killed Zarqawi?

Monty what's going to happen when we capture or kill Bin Laden? Oh I know what will happen, I can read the headline already:

"American City Streets Covered in White Sticky Paste After Capture Of Bin Laden"


Carl did any of the others bomb the US twice? Are you noticing the difference between Bin Laden and all these other examples you keep giving? Kinda like the guy who shot 4 people in the bar.. and there are only 3 people left alive in the bar.. Do you kill the guy who just killed 4 people or kill the other guy because earlier in the day he called you an asshole?

[Monty Mikho]

Who are you LT. Caffey? You can't handle the truth. You want an opinion so you can have an un-civil discussion. Well guess what there is plenty of sand to be pounded in Utah sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo GO POUND SAND

Im actually in Nevada for the next few days.. Wanna guess what for?

[hsutton]

Anything is possible. You have guys that do not know they are suppose to have a clear front sight tip, so anything is possible.

That answer your question? If he wants to anything can happen. I would have never believed an American blew up the Murrah building. An american blew up a truck, that truck didn't cause the rest of what happened at the Murrah building. Even the evening news reported the removal of several more unexploded bombs removed from inside the building, then, since it didn't match the official story everyone started changing the accounts of what happened. I was working twenty miles south of OKC on the morning that that building blew up. Have any of you ever seen the film that examines the damage of the Murrah building as done by a General Partin of the USAF, (retired)? This man's job was bomb damage assement during the Vietnam war and he said that no way could a low grade explosive like Ammonium Nitrate and Diesel Fuel have created that kind of damage to steel a reinforced concrete structure from a distance of fourty feet from the nearest column. He further stated that the main blast had to have been on the second floor on a main support column which he pointed out in the film. The official Murrah building explanition is total B.S. which is why all the evidence has been removed and buried. Armed guards stand at the burial site so no one can carry out further analysis. Where is guy #2 and why didn't he get charged along with McVey and Nichols? His picture appeared in two major news monthly magazines so why didn't he wind up in jail too?

[hsutton]

No I don't think you are a crackpot. You fully qualify for nutcase. You really are a marine. If you just look up the subject it won't be such a shock when they come to your doorstep. Just go read about these people and "believe it or not". A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

[Ken F]

No question in my mind, the foreign policy of this administration has made a bad situation worse. A lot worse. We are in more danger here on our own soil than ever in history.

"And that's all I have to say about that."

[Ken F]

Im actually in Nevada for the next few days.. Wanna guess what for?


I'll take Mustang Ranch for $1500, Alex.

[Monty Mikho]

I'll take Mustang Ranch for $1500, Alex.

You are very wrong.. These Right Wingers are growing on you.. :-D

[Monty Mikho]

No question in my mind, the foreign policy of this administration has made a bad situation worse. A lot worse. We are in more danger here on our own soil than ever in history.

"And that's all I have to say about that."

So phuckin true.. But again the right wingers will say "have we been attacked since 9/11?" and again I say.. why should we be attacked.. we are causing our own problems and doing away with American lives faster than any terrorist has ever done!!! and them be the facts... 3242 dead and 24042 wounded since the invasion on Iraq..

[Rick_R]

Im actually in Nevada for the next few days.. Wanna guess what for?

Bombing Hoover dam?:smt082:smt082

[O.C White]

Im actually in Nevada for the next few days.. Wanna guess what for?

Did I ask you? Obviously I don't care. Now is that a clear enough direction for you?

[O.C White]

An american blew up a truck, that truck didn't cause the rest of what happened at the Murrah building. Even the evening news reported the removal of several more unexploded bombs removed from inside the building, then, since it didn't match the official story everyone started changing the accounts of what happened. I was working twenty miles south of OKC on the morning that that building blew up. Have any of you ever seen the film that examines the damage of the Murrah building as done by a General Partin of the USAF, (retired)? This man's job was bomb damage assement during the Vietnam war and he said that no way could a low grade explosive like Ammonium Nitrate and Diesel Fuel have created that kind of damage to steel a reinforced concrete structure from a distance of fourty feet from the nearest column. He further stated that the main blast had to have been on the second floor on a main support column which he pointed out in the film. The official Murrah building explanition is total B.S. which is why all the evidence has been removed and buried. Armed guards stand at the burial site so no one can carry out further analysis. Where is guy #2 and why didn't he get charged along with McVey and Nichols? His picture appeared in two major news monthly magazines so why didn't he wind up in jail too?

Where is guy number 2? Why don't you try checking your math with another nut case conspiracy theory. The way you make it sound it is 3 guys. Guy number 2 was Nichols from everything I have read.

And you may want to check your facts about car bombs. The Murrah building looked just like the barracks in Ryhad Saudi Arabia when it went off. Another thing stupid diesel fuel doesn't explode so someone fed you a line of crap. You can throw a lit match in diesel fuel and nothing will happen.

So back to the rock you crawled off from under.

[O.C White]

I'll take Mustang Ranch for $1500, Alex.


Try staying current, Mustang ranch burned down in 2004.

[O.C White]

Carl did any of the others bomb the US twice? Are you noticing the difference between Bin Laden and all these other examples you keep giving? Kinda like the guy who shot 4 people in the bar.. and there are only 3 people left alive in the bar.. Do you kill the guy who just killed 4 people or kill the other guy because earlier in the day he called you an asshole?

Wait a second I thought a blind man bombed the Towers the first time? You mean that is a hoax? Wonder who has been screaming that around here about blaming a blind man?

So Bin Laden did it in 1993 also huh? We didn't go after him in 1993 did we? Wonder why?

[O.C White]

Carl did any of the others bomb the US twice? Are you noticing the difference between Bin Laden and all these other examples you keep giving? Kinda like the guy who shot 4 people in the bar.. and there are only 3 people left alive in the bar.. Do you kill the guy who just killed 4 people or kill the other guy because earlier in the day he called you an asshole?

No I kill the guy that keep's coming up with these dumb analogies.

[George Klass]

Negative, the Mustang Ranch did not burn down. It was too light when it went across the scales and was disqualified.

[O.C White]

Good morning George, I am waiting for your usual use-less dribble also. I haven't kicked you in the nuts in a while.

[George Klass]

Bring it on, baldy.

Which reminds me. Your picture in your Marine uniform is a little out of date now. Why don't you update it with a new photo of you in your TSA uniform. Maybe someone could snap it while you are going through the luggage of some 92 year old woman, rummaging around in her panties while you are looking for bombs.

[O.C White]

Bring it on, baldy.

George,

with that hair piece you got, be careful walking through the park alright. The squirrel's might accidentally take you home one day.

[George Klass]

You wish you had real hair like I do. My pee pee may be smaller, I don't know (and I ain't checking either), but my hair is real and all you have on your head is, well, I think they call it "scalp".

[O.C White]

You wish you had real hair like I do. My pee pee may be smaller, I don't know (and I ain't checking either), but my hair is real and all you have on your head is, well, I think they call it "scalp".

George,

be careful walking through the park. I would hate to see a groundchuck holding you hostage with an acorn to your neck. I might root for the groundchuck.

[George Klass]

Groundchuck, what in the hell is a groundchuck? Is that an animal or something you pick up at the butcher shop and put on the grill? In either case, it probably still has more hair than you do.

[Crazy68]

Whenever Bush tells him too!!!

[Crazy68]

For the 3RD time

DO YOU THINK IT IS POSSIBLE FOR BIN LADEN TO PLAN AND HAVE A 3rd ATTACK ON THE US?


and how many did Saddam have on US soil to justify such hate and anger to making it a must to capture and kill him.. Some answers please..

Whenever Bush tells him too!!!!

[MagicRatt]

I can see the left wing machine is still hard at work conjuring up theory after theory.............kinda like comic relief..........

[N2Ojunkie]

Does anyone think we are anysafer now than we were in 2001?

I don't.


As far as the comment about fighting them here in the USA. I think it is a matter of time because they are already here. But since nobody in government has the balls or the stomach to actually fix the things that have failed us in this country we are still sitting here wide open for another attack.

[Bluenoser]

Anybody who thinks the Arabs did 9/11 need to take out a new lease on the Brooklin Bridge. Any one who only has a single engine pilots license can't possibly hit something the size of those buildings. More and more people are realizing the holes in the bogus stories about the trade centers. Building #3 wasn't event hit by anything, but still fell down. Where were all the fighter-interceptors that are stationed in the air force bases near NYC and why didn't they splash those jet liners. There was a twenty five minute interval where air traffic controllers knew there was a deviation of their flight paths. The Air Force is flying unmanned drones in Iraq from a command and control center in Nevada so guiding in a couple of air liners to those targets with Global Hawk would have been a piece of cake. The twin towers was nothing more than a diversion created to get the American public to allow the passage of the Patroit Act and more serious legislation to take your freedoms away from you. So kiss your rights goodby, next it will be your guns and property they get, while you sleep and worry about some Arabs. Just Google up " Illuminati and the Rothchilds" and see who the real terrorists are. There are only five countries in the world that are not under their "monetary control" and anyone who opposes their plan they are forced into a depression or war to get them in line. Least you think i'm just a crackpot, think about this, the five remaining countries to be brought their thumb are Iran (next on Bush's list), Sudan (not very important), Cuba (In an state of economic depression since the early sixties), Libya (not a real power), and North Korea (badly depressed for the last fourty years). This plan of taking over control of the whole world's economy has been in motion since the late sixteen hundred's and it's almost complete now. In 2001 Rumsfeld gave a speech on the U.S. military having lost over 2.3 trillion dollars, which is $8000 for every person in the U.S.). That was 9/10/2001. The next day was 9/11, so connect the dots. The people in power now needed a diversion to get everybodies mind off of where all that money went. "Wake up now" and prepare yourselves for what's coming, it isn't going to be pretty.
Okay...I take back my Michael Moore comment about Monty. Clearly, THIS is a Michael Moore want a be.:toimonster:

[O.C White]

Whenever Bush tells him too!!!!

Whenever Bush tells him too!!!

Ladies and gentlemen,

left wing intellect at it's finest or we have a broken record. But the first part of his sign in name fits him perfectly.

[Monty Mikho]

Bring it on, baldy.

Which reminds me. Your picture in your Marine uniform is a little out of date now. .

Come on now George.. Every once in a while I put on my Burger King uniform as I worked there when I was 16...

[O.C White]

Bring it on, baldy.

Which reminds me. Your picture in your Marine uniform is a little out of date now. Why don't you update it with a new photo of you in your TSA uniform. Maybe someone could snap it while you are going through the luggage of some 92 year old woman, rummaging around in her panties while you are looking for bombs.

I am actually waiting for a 67 year old tech guy to come through my gate in the future.

Since I am not a Marine any more maybe I can try my hand at being a proctologist. I mean you call yourself a tech guy so I can pretend to.

[Monty Mikho]

I am actually waiting for a 67 year old tech guy to come through my gate in the future.

Since I am not a Marine any more maybe I can try my hand at being a proctologist. I mean you call yourself a tech guy so I can pretend to.

You wanna finger George?:-gay

[Chris Uratchko]

Scurry scurry scurry.... where is my life headed? What will I do? How will I eat? The world is falling apart around me!!!

I feel sorry for you folks. When the 'real' tough times come to your door step, you will all bow down to whomever that authority is so you can have food in your fridge the next day.

Patriot this, and that..... them days are gone. Welcome to the gulag!!

[O.C White]

This thread has been quite interesting to say the very least. I mean I am still trying to figure the math on the Murrah Building post, Monty knows the right button to push, no surprise there, George well he adds..................................George he adds................................ I'lll get back to George.

But man some of the strange goings on.

I mean I enjoy outside the box thinking when it makes sense, and has a little bit of logic to it, but Global hawks, and remote controlled airplanes.

I wonder one thing, if those were Global Hawks and other things that crashed into those buildings, how did they get the families to go along with those fake phone calls?

[George Klass]

We live in a strange world and there are strange people in it doing strange things and thinking strange thoughts.

And most of these people are YB members, which is why I love this board. Not being strange myself, I like to keep abreast with what you strange people are up to.

[Bluenoser]

We live in a strange world and there are strange people in it doing strange things and thinking strange thoughts.

And most of these people are YB members, which is why I love this board. Not being strange myself, I like to keep abreast with what you strange people are up to.
Now THAT'S funny chit!:eek:

[George Klass]

You want funny? How about a guy that paints his car to look like an airplane? Now THAT'S funny.

[O.C White]

A picture of the barracks in Saudi:

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/LAW/06/13/khobar.indictments/index.html

The whole face of this building was sheared off.

[Faceman]

Oh and another question: What's wrong with the bill that Congress just passed and the President swears he is going to veto? Is he gonna "NOT SUPPORT THE TROOPS?"

Two things, One is 28 billion in pork barrell spending for shit noone needs, and two the President is not going to be held to a time table. If congress wants the troops home, stop funding the mission and bring them home, if not it's just hot air they are blowing for the Anti War crowd!!!

[Faceman]

Nothing important in building 7.. just some CIA files showing them responsible for the majority of drug trafficking into this country... No big deal tho..

I think you might be on some drugs after reading the shit you wrote today!!!

[Faceman]

Seriously though, Where is Bin Laden?:smt082 :smt082 :smt082

In Pakistan!!

[Faceman]

No time to ask questions.. We need the oil... I mean democracy in Iraq

What oil? We get the majority of our oil from Canada, so again tell me how much Iraq's oil is helping us!!!

[nos351]

Any one who only has a single engine pilots license can't possibly hit something the size of those buildings.

I have piloted single engine planes and their is no doubt in my mind that I could do exactly what they did if I wanted to given the access they had.

[hsutton]

Scurry scurry scurry.... where is my life headed? What will I do? How will I eat? The world is falling apart around me!!!

I feel sorry for you folks. When the 'real' tough times come to your door step, you will all bow down to whomever that authority is so you can have food in your fridge the next day.

Patriot this, and that..... them days are gone. Welcome to the gulag!! Absoluterly the most true statement yet. Everything we have ever been taught is B.S. and only using your head for something besides a "hat rack" will prevent you from starving to death in the very near future. My time line on the other post is a little off as the "Rothschilds" started in the late 1700s getting control of the European economies and later the American economy also. Anyone who really wants to know can look up "Who are the Rothschilds" and get a real clear view of the way things have transpired since then. This is not babble or scare tactics, i'd really like to see someone go read this stuf and see if it doesn't make sense to them too. I'm sure most of you can read and comprehend this short video as it is very simple. So simple even a cave man can do it.

[Faceman]

Do you guys think we are going to get Bin Laden? Seriously......

I would like to think so, but I really think that would mean we would have to go into Pakistan, but I just don't see the US doing that. Mosharif (SPELLING) would have huge problems if he let US troops come in and get him.

[hsutton]

In Pakistan!! And if he's smart he'll stay there. With that great big bounty on his head he'd be killed for sure if he ventured out in the open somewhere else.

[Faceman]

Anybody who thinks the Arabs did 9/11 need to take out a new lease on the Brooklin Bridge. Any one who only has a single engine pilots license can't possibly hit something the size of those buildings. More and more people are realizing the holes in the bogus stories about the trade centers. Building #3 wasn't event hit by anything, but still fell down. Where were all the fighter-interceptors that are stationed in the air force bases near NYC and why didn't they splash those jet liners. There was a twenty five minute interval where air traffic controllers knew there was a deviation of their flight paths. The Air Force is flying unmanned drones in Iraq from a command and control center in Nevada so guiding in a couple of air liners to those targets with Global Hawk would have been a piece of cake. The twin towers was nothing more than a diversion created to get the American public to allow the passage of the Patroit Act and more serious legislation to take your freedoms away from you. So kiss your rights goodby, next it will be your guns and property they get, while you sleep and worry about some Arabs. Just Google up " Illuminati and the Rothchilds" and see who the real terrorists are. There are only five countries in the world that are not under their "monetary control" and anyone who opposes their plan they are forced into a depression or war to get them in line. Least you think i'm just a crackpot, think about this, the five remaining countries to be brought their thumb are Iran (next on Bush's list), Sudan (not very important), Cuba (In an state of economic depression since the early sixties), Libya (not a real power), and North Korea (badly depressed for the last fourty years). This plan of taking over control of the whole world's economy has been in motion since the late sixteen hundred's and it's almost complete now. In 2001 Rumsfeld gave a speech on the U.S. military having lost over 2.3 trillion dollars, which is $8000 for every person in the U.S.). That was 9/10/2001. The next day was 9/11, so connect the dots. The people in power now needed a diversion to get everybodies mind off of where all that money went. "Wake up now" and prepare yourselves for what's coming, it isn't going to be pretty.


Dude you need to move out to the desert and eat some more peyote!!!

[nos351]

My time line on the other post is a little off as the "Rothschilds" started in the late 1700s getting control of the European economies and later the American economy also.

I thought the Illuminati were in control, no wait the John Birch society, no wait the military industrial complex or wait one more time, its the banks, yep its the banks.

[Faceman]

Exactly. Why does everybody forget about the fact that this building wasn't even hit by an airplane or debris? I guess the fact that if you tell a lie long enough and often enough it will be thought to be the truth.


You guys kill me, how about when the tower fell debris fell into that building and other buildings in the surrounding area. #7 had been on fire since the first tower fell.

Do yourselves a favor and stop with the conspiracy theories.

[O.C White]

Absoluterly the most true statement yet. Everything we have ever been taught is B.S. and only using your head for something besides a "hat rack" will prevent you from starving to death in the very near future. My time line on the other post is a little off as the "Rothschilds" started in the late 1700s getting control of the European economies and later the American economy also. Anyone who really wants to know can look up "Who are the Rothschilds" and get a real clear view of the way things have transpired since then. This is not babble or scare tactics, i'd really like to see someone go read this stuf and see if it doesn't make sense to them too. I'm sure most of you can read and comprehend this short video as it is very simple. So simple even a cave man can do it.

So you are admitting mistakes now, and we are suppose to believe you now?

[Faceman]

An american blew up a truck, that truck didn't cause the rest of what happened at the Murrah building. Even the evening news reported the removal of several more unexploded bombs removed from inside the building, then, since it didn't match the official story everyone started changing the accounts of what happened. I was working twenty miles south of OKC on the morning that that building blew up. Have any of you ever seen the film that examines the damage of the Murrah building as done by a General Partin of the USAF, (retired)? This man's job was bomb damage assement during the Vietnam war and he said that no way could a low grade explosive like Ammonium Nitrate and Diesel Fuel have created that kind of damage to steel a reinforced concrete structure from a distance of fourty feet from the nearest column. He further stated that the main blast had to have been on the second floor on a main support column which he pointed out in the film. The official Murrah building explanition is total B.S. which is why all the evidence has been removed and buried. Armed guards stand at the burial site so no one can carry out further analysis. Where is guy #2 and why didn't he get charged along with McVey and Nichols? His picture appeared in two major news monthly magazines so why didn't he wind up in jail too?

So who was responsible for the "real explosion"?

[Faceman]

No question in my mind, the foreign policy of this administration has made a bad situation worse. A lot worse. We are in more danger here on our own soil than ever in history.

"And that's all I have to say about that."

Yeah from our own people, 100 murders in 97 days in the city of Philadelphia, I would tend to agree with your statement, but it has noting to do with the war!!!

[O.C White]

More on the bombing of the Saudi barracks:

http://partners.nytimes.com/library/world/africa/062696binladen.html?Partner=PBS&RefId=Eutttn-uFBqv

This bomb was attached to a fuel truck.

Now my background on explosive devices.

I am a 1371 Combat Engineer by MOS(military Occipational Skill). I worked with explosives for 17 of my 21 years.

Combat engineers construct, alter, repair, and maintain buildings and structures; lift and move heavy objects and equipment by setting up, bracing, and utilizing rigging devices and equipment; and perform various duties incidental to the use of demolitions in construction projects and destruction of objects. Personnel assigned this MOS are taught carpentry and other construction skills as well as demolitions, specialized demolitions for urban breaching and land mine warfare.

We use a device called a cratering charge. It is made up of ammonium nitrate, and it is used for blowing craters. Hence the name cratering charge.

So that bomb that set off in OKC was probably twice as large and probably 4 times as powerful as the blast that hit the barracks in Saudi.

You conspiracy folks really have a lack of respect for the American public. Notice I didn't say gub-mint I said the public by sitting here arguing that it was done by our gub-mint and coverd up. Things of this nature cannot be kept secret that is the first thing you all need to realize.

But I admit I appreciate the entertainment along with a few other folks.

[Crazy68]

I have lots of respect for guys in US. Sometimes alittle closed minded for my liking.
Has anyone been on this website before?
http://911weknow.com/
Very eye opening.
Question for everyone. Why was all of the steel shipped overseas from the buildings(Towers) to be looked at?
You must have some smart engineers in the States?

[O.C White]

I have lots of respect for guys in US. Sometimes alittle closed minded for my liking.
Has anyone been on this website before?
http://911weknow.com/
Very eye opening.
Question for everyone. Why was all of the steel shipped overseas from the buildings(Towers) to be looked at?
You must have some smart engineers in the States?

So uh where are you from?

[Faceman]

I have lots of respect for guys in US. Sometimes alittle closed minded for my liking.
Has anyone been on this website before?
http://911weknow.com/
Very eye opening.
Question for everyone. Why was all of the steel shipped overseas from the buildings(Towers) to be looked at?
You must have some smart engineers in the States?

It wasn't, it was shipped to a dump in Jersey where investigators and engineers did the examinations. After that some of the steel was shipped to a foundry so it could be melted down to make a new fire truck for the FDNY.


Who are these people who start this bull shit on the internet, and who are these people who buy it like its on sale?

[Crazy68]

So uh where are you from?
Canada

[Crazy68]

It wasn't, it was shipped to a dump in Jersey where investigators and engineers did the examinations. After that some of the steel was shipped to a foundry so it could be melted down to make a new fire truck for the FDNY.


Who are these people who start this bull shit on the internet, and who are these people who buy it like its on sale?
Be very carefull Faceman. You must have very good information before you post.
All of the trailers hauling steel were covered up with tarps. Seems kind of weird for scrap steel don't you think.
How do you get cell phone reception 30,000 feet up in the air?

[O.C White]

I don't know what documentary you been watching but the steel from Towers was not covered up with tarps.

The Documentary I have hosted by CNN of all people shows the steel being transported on open trailers, and the equipment was barely able to get it off the trailer becasue it was so heavy.

The documentary by CNN talks about the scorched asbestos they found on the steel beams.

[Crazy68]

Hi Carl,
Do you know how much it was going to cost to get rid of all that asbestos,in the millions.
Funny how the person that took over the lease on the towers 6 months proir to 9/11, redid his insurance on the buildings just before 9/11.

[MagicRatt]

Funny how the person that took over the lease on the towers 6 months proir to 9/11, redid his insurance on the buildings just before 9/11.



...must be another conspiericy theory in the making......you left wingers better get crackin' on this one!!

[O.C White]

Hi Carl,
Do you know how much it was going to cost to get rid of all that asbestos,in the millions.
Funny how the person that took over the lease on the towers 6 months proir to 9/11, redid his insurance on the buildings just before 9/11.

Hmm let me see another example maybe us dumber folk can understand.

I buy a car from MagicRatt, he has insurance with All-State, I hate All State, but it's my car so I insure it with State Farm becasue well it's my car.

Okay you got me why did he change insurance?

[MagicRatt]

Does anyone think we are anysafer now than we were in 2001?




Absolutely!! Without any doubt we are safer now than ever before. Why? Awareness for starters. We know who the enemy is and what they want to do. They are cowards who hide behind women and children and still cover their faces in black garb. This administartion has gone to great lenths to protect the people of this country, yet there are still crackpots out trying to undermine everything GWB has done in the name of the anti-war movement. I get so tired of hearing all the cool aid drinkers and Bush haters using every angle possible to undermine the war effort with all their theories. Just imagine if John Kerry won the 04 election. That stupid son of a bitch still hasn't figured out if he is for it, or against it. So are we safer today than in 2001???? Like it or not libs, we are much safer!!

Rich

[O.C White]

I definitely agree with the "more aware" part. I never liked crowds before 9-11, and really do not like them now. Amusement Parks, malls during the holidays, I was never a big fan of those.

[George Klass]

Rich, I'm surprised that you can even talk, with your mouth that full of GWB's dick.

[O.C White]

Rich, I'm surprised that you can even talk, with your mouth that full of GWB's dick.

Rich,

this is George's way of saying "I have nothing constructive to add to the conversation so I will get some attention to myself by posting this"

[MagicRatt]

Rich, I'm surprised that you can even talk, with your mouth that full of GWB's dick.

LOL.....jealousy will get you nowhere George....no go back and stick your nose in Nancy's ass like a good little lib.......

[Crazy68]

Hmm let me see another example maybe us dumber folk can understand.

I buy a car from MagicRatt, he has insurance with All-State, I hate All State, but it's my car so I insure it with State Farm becasue well it's my car.

Okay you got me why did he change insurance?

I didn't say he changed insurance did I.He redid his insurance for a larger policy,maybe saw how much it was going to cost to clean-up the asbestoes? Not sure, just conspericy i guess.
Out of here,more friendly discussions tomorrow guys

[George Klass]

Well, Rich didn't have anything constructuive to add either, other than his right wing whacko opinions, so I just followed suit.

[O.C White]

I didn't say he changed insurance did I.He redid his insurance for a larger policy,maybe saw how much it was going to cost to clean-up the asbestoes? Not sure, just conspericy i guess.
Out of here,more friendly discussions tomorrow guys

Regardless it's his buildings he can do whatever he wants. If he wants to just insure it against tornado damge that is his perogative.

Now if his insurance said "I'm insuring it against 767's flown by Mid Easterns in the month of September" I think you would be on to something.

[O.C White]

LOL.....jealousy will get you nowhere George....no go back and stick your nose in Nancy's ass like a good little lib.......

No wonder she hasn't be able to sit down for a month, and George has been no where to be seen. Explains it all.

[Faceman]

Hi Carl,
Do you know how much it was going to cost to get rid of all that asbestos,in the millions.
Funny how the person that took over the lease on the towers 6 months proir to 9/11, redid his insurance on the buildings just before 9/11.

Dude, the Port Authority of New York/New Jersey owned the tower out right, there was no lease, and they were the insured. You might try to get your info straight.

Did you ever hear of a satellite? That is how you're cell phone works at 30 thousand feet.

[O.C White]

Well I kind of see what is going on here a little. The Kennedy conspiracy has loss momentum, so now we got to get as much conspiracy out there as possible about Oklahoma and 9-11.

The internet fuels this thinking of the great Gub-Mint plot to kill 3000 plus people and keep it quiet.

Anyone ever remember if Clinton went to the Murrah building site when it was blown to smithereens? I can't remember and I am being honest here. I was on the drill field then and we didn't have much access to newspapers and TV's.

[Shelton_Barrs]

That is what gets me about the 9/11 and OKC conspiracy theories, somehow the goverment is able to keep that secret and hidden but then look at the stuff that gets leaked...

[MagicRatt]

That's because all the Bush haters need something to keep their spirits alive, so they look up to people like Michael Moore and Nancy Pelosi to be their rock. So tell me, all you Bush haters out there........Why do you hate so much??

[Bluenoser]

Why would you want to put your hands in George's mouth?;)

[O.C White]

but then look at the stuff that gets leaked...

You mean like our 3 prong attack into Iraq in 2003? That made the 6 o'clock news that night, and you would think something like that would stay secret.

Oh I forgot, those were just military lives.

[Monty Mikho]

What oil? We get the majority of our oil from Canada, so again tell me how much Iraq's oil is helping us!!!


If you, as an American, take gold from some country.. say Germany and sell it to say.. Russia... Who ends up with the money? Just because we are not shipping it home doesnt mean we are not selling it.. Or are you going to tell me that the Iraqis are controlling the oil over there?

[Monty Mikho]

I think you might be on some drugs after reading the shit you wrote today!!!


You must have a very short term memory.. Or you followed the OJ case like 99.99% of America did...

[Monty Mikho]

Absolutely!! Without any doubt we are safer now than ever before. Why? Awareness for starters. We know who the enemy is and what they want to do. They are cowards who hide behind women and children and still cover their faces in black garb. This administartion has gone to great lenths to protect the people of this country, yet there are still crackpots out trying to undermine everything GWB has done in the name of the anti-war movement. I get so tired of hearing all the cool aid drinkers and Bush haters using every angle possible to undermine the war effort with all their theories. Just imagine if John Kerry won the 04 election. That stupid son of a bitch still hasn't figured out if he is for it, or against it. So are we safer today than in 2001???? Like it or not libs, we are much safer!!

Rich


Can you tell me of anytime throughout Americas history where America didnt have an enemy? New times call for new enemies... It justifies the governments objective on its people called fear and need for a more powerful governement!!! Be it right wing.. left wing or chicken wing...

[O.C White]

Can you tell me of anytime throughout Americas history where America didnt have an enemy? New times call for new enemies... It justifies the governments objective on its people called fear and need for a more powerful governement!!! Be it right wing.. left wing or chicken wing...

I am going to get my eye sight checked tomorrow. Something that is not his usual jibberish.

[Monty Mikho]

I am going to get my eye sight checked tomorrow. Something that is not his usual jibberish.


While you are there please see if they can do something about your duck and run method used when asked a direct question...

I feel so safe that the man we funded 300 billion dollars to will no longer be a threat upon American lives.. Maybe he will start drag racing with all of us...

[O.C White]

While you are there please see if they can do something about your duck and run method used when asked a direct question...


Well I can see you are back to stupid.

[N2Ojunkie]

Absolutely!! Without any doubt we are safer now than ever before. Why? Awareness for starters. We know who the enemy is and what they want to do. They are cowards who hide behind women and children and still cover their faces in black garb. This administartion has gone to great lenths to protect the people of this country, yet there are still crackpots out trying to undermine everything GWB has done in the name of the anti-war movement. I get so tired of hearing all the cool aid drinkers and Bush haters using every angle possible to undermine the war effort with all their theories. Just imagine if John Kerry won the 04 election. That stupid son of a bitch still hasn't figured out if he is for it, or against it. So are we safer today than in 2001???? Like it or not libs, we are much safer!!

Rich
Apparently you can't answer the question without lib bashing so you must not have had much to say. Or you have no proof to back any of it up.


What is sad is that many people can't seem to get past the party he said she said games. Those same people buy into all the double talk and propoganda hook line and sinker. I'll continue being an independant all the while getting a good laugh at some of the responses.

[George Klass]

An interesting word you punched in there Jim, "propaganda". Actually, it's not a sinful word nor is it always a negative phrase. It means "a systematic spreading of ideas". The problem comes when people take those ideas, someone elses ideas, and make them their own ideas, without checking to see if they are valid ideas. That's what polititons do. They throw out propaganda and depending on who is doing the throwing, we either accept it or reject it, usually without testing the ideas validity. If Nancy Pelosi or Kerry throws out their propaganda, the Republicans reject it out of hand. If Cheney or Bush throw out their propaganda, the Dems reject it automatically. It may be that the propaganda is legit. It doesn't mean that propaganda (the idea) is automatically false, does it? It goes back to your belief systems and what you were programmed to believe.

People need to learn to NOT believe things at face value just because the propaganda comes from one side or the other. Given the way that polititions are (poli-speak), it's probably wiser to reject EVERYTHING they say until you have a chance to evaluate it first.

[Crazy68]

An interesting word you punched in there Jim, "propaganda". Actually, it's not a sinful word nor is it always a negative phrase. It means "a systematic spreading of ideas". The problem comes when people take those ideas, someone elses ideas, and make them their own ideas, without checking to see if they are valid ideas. That's what polititons do. They throw out propaganda and depending on who is doing the throwing, we either accept it or reject it, usually without testing the ideas validity. If Nancy Pelosi or Kerry throws out their propaganda, the Republicans reject it out of hand. If Cheney or Bush throw out their propaganda, the Dems reject it automatically. It may be that the propaganda is legit. It doesn't mean that propaganda (the idea) is automatically false, does it? It goes back to your belief systems and what you were programmed to believe.

People need to learn to NOT believe things at face value just because the propaganda comes from one side or the other. Given the way that polititions are (poli-speak), it's probably wiser to reject EVERYTHING they say until you have a chance to evaluate it first.

Thanks George-I justed think that people in general have to do more digging for themselves,they can't believe everything they hear on CNN.
There is always 2 sides to a story and people should evaluate each point given

[George Klass]

That's it exactly Trev, at least in my opinion. People need to stop themselves from being on "auto pilot" and go into manual mode more often. The reason they don't do this is because us humans do not want to admit that we could be wrong, about anything. If we believe that something is "right", we no longer have to test it to see if it is or not. Our beliefs do the thinking for us, which means that we aren't thinking. To challenge our beliefs is a test for ourselves, to see if what we believe is right or wrong and most people refuse to take that challenge.

I keep going back to my dad and his concept of what a Republican is supposed to be, how to define Republican values. If he were here today he would be shaking his head saying that someone should be sued in court for stealing the Republican name and putting it on some totally different political party with totally different values.

No one that called themselves a Republican 30 years ago could possibly go along with what this party stands for today. If anyone "believes" that Republican values are always going to be the same regardless of who is calling the shots, he is just rubber stamping his beliefs, and his brain is in the "off" position. He refuses to address reality. He refuses to have to loook at his beliefs. There is no way on earth that a real Republican can vote for the Republican values today (unless he's on auto pilot) and because he refuses to vote for the Democratic values too, he just won't vote. He "thinks" about the whole thing, looks at the alternative choices, decides that there are no valid choices, and goes out and has a stiff belt on election day. I know of people like that. 50% of the population are like that. I give those people a hell of alot more credit than some jerk on auto pilot that votes down the party ticket, brain on "off", just because of his out of date belief system. That guy is not a patriot. That guy is an idiot.

[Faceman]

If you, as an American, take gold from some country.. say Germany and sell it to say.. Russia... Who ends up with the money? Just because we are not shipping it home doesnt mean we are not selling it.. Or are you going to tell me that the Iraqis are controlling the oil over there?

From what I understand the UN was controlling the Iraqi oil sales not the US government. One would think that it would be in better hands if the US was handling it.

Monty, well be out in a year and the country will turn to shit and they won't have to worry about Oil profits, because they will be unable to ship the product.

[Faceman]

You must have a very short term memory.. Or you followed the OJ case like 99.99% of America did...

My memory is fine thank you, and no I could care less about OJ!!!!

[MagicRatt]

Can you tell me of anytime throughout Americas history where America didnt have an enemy? New times call for new enemies... It justifies the governments objective on its people called fear and need for a more powerful governement!!! Be it right wing.. left wing or chicken wing...


So, exactly what is it you are concerned with? Big gov? Or having enemies? I have no problems with big gov when it comes to the protection of its citizens. How about you?

[MagicRatt]

Apparently you can't answer the question without lib bashing so you must not have had much to say. Or you have no proof to back any of it up


Apparently, I did answer the question with at least one idea.(first word, second line) Proof? You want proof?? How about no attacks on US soil in 6 years? Not good enough for ya? I guess I do have much to say afterall?

I will try to keep the "lib bashing" to a minimum.

[George Klass]

So Magic, you believe that the government is the one that's accountable for no attacks in the last 6 years? How convenient. Mt. St. Helens hasn't erupted in the last 20+ years, let's give a round of applause to the government. No big earthquakes or tsunamis in the U.S. either, hail to the government.

Maybe the reason that we haven't had any attacks over the last 6 years is because we haven't had any attacks in the last 6 years, did you ever put that into your belief system?

You say that you have "no problem with big government". That's because you don't understand big government.

Which president and from which party once said, "Any government big enough to give you everything that you want is big enough to take every thing that you have."?

[O.C White]

Awareness is the only reason we have not had any attacks. Everyone that gives a crap is more aware now. Anyone that has went back into their own little mindset would not notice a pool full of crocodiles if they fell in it.

Keep your awareness is over a 1/3 of the battle fought.

[George Klass]

I agree with Carl completely on this. Have any of you that fly more than occasionally notice that there are apt to be more men sitting in the aisle seats than women? I know that I will always ask for an asile seat now after 9/11, whereas I used to ask for a window seat. I think that any terrorists would never have it so easy to take over a plane like they did before. I think that they would have their hands full today, with a bunch of guys that weren't "stuck" against a window. It's one of those things that I have never seen discussed but I see guys, including me, watching anybody standing or walking in the aisles much more closely today. Like Carl says, everyone is more aware of what is going on in their surroundings today. I don't attribute this to the government either, but to just being more attentive to what is going on around them. I also don't attribute this to the TSA. Based on tests done by their own inspectors, you could smuggle a chain saw on board and they would probably miss it, while they are strip searching a 92 year old gray haired lady in a wheel chair.

[Ken F]

blah, blah, blah . . . How about no attacks on US soil in 6 years? Not good enough for ya? . . . blah, blah, bah

Maybe they have been too busy sneaking WMD's over our un-secured borders. My hunch is attacks on our own soil are coming. It's just a matter of time.

As I have said from the very beginning, we will end up dealing with them here BECAUSE of how we dealt with them there.

[Monty Mikho]

So, exactly what is it you are concerned with? Big gov? Or having enemies? I have no problems with big gov when it comes to the protection of its citizens. How about you?

I have a problem with government when they say they will protect me but will not allow me to protect myself.. Or when they say a woman shouldn't have a choice of keeping here baby or not when pregnant but yet they can send that baby to war and kill it for her at the age of 18.. I can go on for hours about this!!!

[Monty Mikho]

Proof? You want proof?? How about no attacks on US soil in 6 years? Not good enough for ya? I guess I do have much to say afterall?
.



Please refer back to original post of this thread!!! Why do we need an attack? We are killing our own...

[Monty Mikho]

Maybe they have been too busy sneaking WMD's over our un-secured borders. My hunch is attacks on our own soil are coming. It's just a matter of time.

As I have said from the very beginning, we will end up dealing with them here BECAUSE of how we dealt with them there.


Only difference is we will be dealing with the Iraqi terrorist that we created.. That is a new threat... something that was never a threat before...

[MagicRatt]

So Magic, you believe that the government is the one that's accountable for no attacks in the last 6 years? How convenient. Mt. St. Helens hasn't erupted in the last 20+ years, let's give a round of applause to the government. No big earthquakes or tsunamis in the U.S. either, hail to the government.


Are you for real? You are comparing earthquakes, tsunamis, and Mt. st.helens to planned and executed terrorists attacks? Last I checked, one was natural and one was man made. Oh, my bad, I forgot that GWB controls the weather patterns across the world. Silly me.....:rolleyes: I thought I made it clear in a prior post that "awareness" brought on by gov policies and programs has prevented attacks on our soil. Did you read any of that George?? Or are you still concerned about my "lib bashing"

[George Klass]

Nope magic, I'm not concerned about your lib bashing. I'm just sitting here laughing my ass off at your expense. Ramble away.

[MagicRatt]

Maybe they have been too busy sneaking WMD's over our un-secured borders. My hunch is attacks on our own soil are coming. It's just a matter of time.

As I have said from the very beginning, we will end up dealing with them here BECAUSE of how we dealt with them there.


Ken, you might be right about future attacks. I don't disagree about the future but I think we are better prepared now than we were before 9/11. To what degree I have no idea. I hope we never have to find out, either. What I do know is fact and the US has not had an attack on it's own soil since 9/11. I think we all can agree on that. You speak of dealing with them over there. What is your plan to deal with them?

[O.C White]

You speak of dealing with them over there. What is your plan to deal with them?

Tuck his tail between his legs, and scream bloody murder at the cops for doing nothing.

[MagicRatt]

Please refer back to original post of this thread!!! Why do we need an attack? We are killing our own...


The way I see it, this country is at war, like it or not. Guns go off, bombs blow up, and soldiers die. It's a bad thing and nobody wants it. But sooner or later ya gotta fight, or you can choose to bury your head in the sand and pretend everything is ok. At least we all have that choice.........

[MagicRatt]

Nope magic, I'm not concerned about your lib bashing. I'm just sitting here laughing my ass off at your expense. Ramble away.


That's a good attitude George!! Laugh away and maybe you might learn something:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Monty Mikho]

The way I see it, this country is at war, like it or not. Guns go off, bombs blow up, and soldiers die. It's a bad thing and nobody wants it. But sooner or later ya gotta fight, or you can choose to bury your head in the sand and pretend everything is ok. At least we all have that choice.........

I have never stated that we should have turned away or buried our heads.. But this could have been done way cleaner.. And this opinion is not hindsight either.. But I think you already know that...

[MagicRatt]

I have never stated that we should have turned away or buried our heads.. But this could have been done way cleaner.. And this opinion is not hindsight either.. But I think you already know that...

Monty, I'm all ears. Let's hear your plan........

[N2Ojunkie]

Republicans have tried to micromanage this conflict from the beginning so they could use it for political gain. They should have let the military kick ass and get the job done instead. Unfortunately now we have 2 different sides arguing over who gets to micromanage this conflict. And that is a no win situation.

[O.C White]

My opinion on the awareness goes a little further.

The gub-mint is dang if you, dang if you don't. Since they didn't prevent 9-11 they are the bad guys, and now they have the color code system(which they stole from Jeff Cooper's combat mindset) every time an Arab calls his mother.

We got to make up our minds somewhere. Either we want to know or we don't. If people want to be aware, they don't need to be told. You don't have to tell me there is danger out there, I know it, I don't go around sleepwalking like everything is peachy king.

You jump me be it terrorist or mugger, I sure hope you brought a lunch, a map, and a flashlight because you might get hungry, and lost in the darkness.

[Ed-vancedEngines]

Originally Posted by Monty Mikho http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/images/ibulletin/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?p=297347#post297347)
I have never stated that we should have turned away or buried our heads.. But this could have been done way cleaner.. And this opinion is not hindsight either.. But I think you already know that...


I agree for a change.
We could have done a Covert Action using a small Hi Tech Force like Delta or Seals etc, or maybe even tougher, if the US even has any kind of a Hit Team. If they do they will not admit it. We do need an Elite Professional Team like those we see in TV Movies though.

Now we could use only drones fed with info from intelligence (?) to pin-point individual targets. Wonder if we will ever be able to Lazer Zap an individual target from space by sattelite. lol.

Ed

[nos351]

I think you guys are forgetting Executive order 11905 Sec. 5 Paragraph G.
Also reiterated under Reagan in Executive Order 12333. Here I will make it
easy for you lazy types.........

"No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination."

[Rick_R]

I think you guys are forgetting Executive order 11905 Sec. 5 Paragraph G.
Also reiterated under Reagan in Executive Order 12333. Here I will make it
easy for you lazy types.........

"No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination."

easy way around this is......
"But honest we weren't trying to kill him, we were just trying to take him prisoner and somehow he ended up with 32# of lead in him"

[nos351]

easy way around this is......
"But honest we weren't trying to kill him, we were just trying to take him prisoner and somehow he ended up with 32# of lead in him"

In this political climate? I am sure Scooter Libby and Attorney General Gonzalez had similiar thoughts in their respective scandals. I doubt any career minded politician would follow through. It is a simple fix though, recind those Executive Orders and/or replace with one making it legal.

[George Klass]

Here is an even more simple fiix. Disregard the law. They do it every day in Wahington, every day that the borders are wide opena and illegals are streaming in.

[MagicRatt]

Republicans have tried to micromanage this conflict from the beginning so they could use it for political gain. They should have let the military kick ass and get the job done instead. Unfortunately now we have 2 different sides arguing over who gets to micromanage this conflict. And that is a no win situation.

x2!!!! That's exactly why this country will never win another war!! We have a history of not listening to our key military personal. Politicians and media don't win conflicts, generals and soldiers do. There is only one C.I.C., not 572 of them. If the general at the front says we need this or we need that, it's up to the politician to make sure the general gets what he needs. It's not the job of the politician to decide what, when, and if the general needs supplies. I personally have a very hard line on the war on terror. I supported the war from the start and I still do today. I think what needs to be questioned is the committment to winning the war. Most of them voted for it, now they want to undermine it to win back the special interest groups that put them in office. I am not talking about only dems here, some reps fit the shoe also. God bless the USA.......

[Bluenoser]

x2!!!! That's exactly why this country will never win another war!! We have a history of not listening to our key military personal. Politicians and media don't win conflicts, generals and soldiers do. There is only one C.I.C., not 572 of them. If the general at the front says we need this or we need that, it's up to the politician to make sure the general gets what he needs. It's not the job of the politician to decide what, when, and if the general needs supplies. I personally have a very hard line on the war on terror. I supported the war from the start and I still do today. I think what needs to be questioned is the committment to winning the war. Most of them voted for it, now they want to undermine it to win back the special interest groups that put them in office. I am not talking about only dems here, some reps fit the shoe also. God bless the USA.......
X2!!! That's what gets me. Just about all of them voted for this war, so let's just finish it. I've said it before, war is not pretty. It's not about those fancy $2000 a plate meals during fundraiser time. It's a very nasty, unpleasant job. Don't make it worse by prolonging it with stupid debates. Give our soldiers the tools to do this job, and it will be accomplished. Lose those f'n cameras, and reporters, and our military will have everything smoothed out in no time.

[George Klass]

Interesting course of action proposed by noser and magic. Get rid of the press and let the military fight for their own cause is what I'm hearing. The problem is that the military does not represent iteslf, it represents the United States. And who is or are the United States? Well, first of all, it's not the elected polititions. The military does not represent the elected polititions (though sometimes the polititions forget that fact). The United States are the people of the United States, the public, the citizens. The polititions are supposed to be representing the people of the United States, not the other way around. We don't have to "support the president", he has to support us. Some of you seem to have forgotten this. The military force of this country is supposed to protect the citizens of this country, that's the way it works. The problem that the military has today, and had during Vietnam, is that it doesn't know if it should support the people of the United States or the polititions of the United States and therin lies the conflict. The military is like a machine, like a computer. You tell it what to do and it does it, period, end of story. If you tell the military to add 2 plus 2, it will do it and come up with the right answer. But if you play politics and tell the military to add 2 plus 2 and come up with 5, it will not be able to achieve results.

The people of the United States, based on the information that the people's representatives "gave us", told the military to go into Iraq and get rid of Saddam. They did that, in just a few months. Mission Accomplished. Then, our representatives gave out enough conflicting orders, unrealistic political missions and unattainable political goals, that NO military could accomplish. Mission NOT accomplished, because it was un-accomplishable, and still is.

The problem is not the military and it's not the public either, and hiding REALITY from the public (by getting rid of the press), something that this administration of propagandists are very good at, is not the answer. The answer is to either come up with realistic or winnable military goals or to get the military out of there. "Creating democracy" is not a militarily accomplishable goal in Iraq or in the region.

[nos351]

The true problem is we are to imperialistic....we need to become more isolationist.
It will only happen when the evil doers launch a couple of suitcase devices here.

[taxman]

we need to become more isolationist.

The last time we did that, we got Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo.

[nos351]

The last time we did that, we got Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo.

Yep and we took care of business when the time came. Kicked 3 countries azz
in 3 1/2 years.

[George Klass]

Wait a minute, let me understand something. You say that we "took care of business and (our military) kicked three country's asses, all in 3 1/2 years"? Well, we have been in Iraq now, and we are not even fighting the country of Iraq, have been there going on five years now, and with no end in sight. Is it possible that our elected officials don't have a fuckin' clue as to what they are doing over there?
I can guarantee you that our military still knows how to kick asses so what gives?

[nos351]

Incompetence at the highest levels of government...both civilian and military.

[hsutton]

Dude you need to move out to the desert and eat some more peyote!!! Dude, You need to read and try to comprehend a little. Did you go watch the video? If you are like most Americans your in a state of complete denial. All these wars have played out as they were arranged by the super rich bankers that really own nearly the whole world now. "A mind is a terrible thing to waste". They charged President Abraham Lincoln 36% interest on the monies he borrowed to fight the civil war. America threw out this bank in 1811 and the second war with Great Britian started the next year. The flag you so galantly salute was actually brough over here by the British East India company before the united states even existed as the 13 colonies. Do yourself a favor and go watch the video, only first open you mind up so you grasp the seriousness of this situation. The war in Iraq is bankrupting America, at the rate of 1 billion dollars a DAY. Over four years time that will add up to $8000 for every man, woman and child currently living here. How long can this stupidity continue? Name one thing this has accomplished, besides ruining our economy?

[George Klass]

It may have hurt our economy but it hasn't hurt the oil company's economy. At such time that the oil company's suffer any financial set-backs, the war will be over.

[O.C White]

Incompetence at the highest levels of government...both civilian and military.

Excuse me???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nos351]

Excuse me???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I figured that would get a rise. I blame the top military leaders as much as the media, President etc for dragging this out longer than it needs to be. They keep silent on what is needed to get the job done, overwhelming force.

[O.C White]

Which top military leaders are you referring to? I would like to know the name of the General or heck even the Private that doesn't want to win?

[nos351]

The ones who tell the President what he wants to hear instead of telling him what needs to be done. Who has told him we need overwhelming force? No one I know of. Do you think if Schwarzkofp was running the show we would be still be in the same position we are now?

[George Klass]

Maybe if Tommy Franks had told Rummy that "he was full of shit" in the first place we wouldn't be in this mess today. But then again, Tommy was just another politition, and he bailed out as soon as he could. About the only military guy that told this administration the truth was Colin Powell and you saw what that did for him.

[nos351]

I have never met a General personally, but MOST of the ones I have seen in the media, strike me a politicians with a uniform on.

[O.C White]

The ones who tell the President what he wants to hear instead of telling him what needs to be done. Who has told him we need overwhelming force? No one I know of. Do you think if Schwarzkofp was running the show we would be still be in the same position we are now?

So let me guess, well I am not guessing since I was there in 2004. General Conway called the green zone and told them "look my Marines are tearing this city apart, we have bodies stacked up in the streets, maybe we should call a cease fire to let these guys regroup?"

You all said on other sites the military works for the civilians, the civilians are in charge. Look in a mirror that is why the situation in Iraq in screwed up.

[O.C White]

Maybe if Tommy Franks had told Rummy that "he was full of shit" in the first place we wouldn't be in this mess today. But then again, Tommy was just another politition, and he bailed out as soon as he could. About the only military guy that told this administration the truth was Colin Powell and you saw what that did for him.

Colin Powell wasn't in the military during this administration. Powell wanted to go into Iraq as bad as the next person. Do a little research and find it.

[O.C White]

I have never met a General personally, but MOST of the ones I have seen in the media, strike me a politicians with a uniform on.

Oh I get it a speech written so the normal nimrods can understand it makes him a politician? Maybe he should get up there and speak in military times, and ism's then you would be complaining about "I can't understand anything he is saying, he is speaking in military jargon"

Get a grip.

[nos351]

Incompetence at the highest levels of government...both civilian and military.

May want to reread, I said highest levels. Name me one general who has said publicly who was in a position of influence that we need overwhelming force?

[O.C White]

May want to reread, I said highest levels. Name me one general who has said publicly who was in a position of influence that we need overwhelming force?

General Conway. USMC Commandant of the Marine Corps.

[nos351]

General Conway. USMC Commandant of the Marine Corps.

Any quotes in the media from him that I can read? I will ask this question again,
Do you think we would still be in the position we are in if Shwarzkopf was running the show?

[O.C White]

Try reading this before you say high level Generals didn't give a crap:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16309-2004Sep12.html

I told george and a few others on here civilians were so pissed about those 4 contractors getting killed, they wanted revenge.

Civilians are the reason for this mess. We can't fight when you all get your panties in a bunch every time a Soldier, sailor, Marine, or Airmen get's killed and you don't like it.

[O.C White]

Any quotes in the media from him that I can read? I will ask this question again,
Do you think we would still be in the position we are in if Shwarzkopf was running the show?

He would do exactly what his civilian leaders would tell him to do. Are you saying the military should disband from the civilian leadership? Careful, I don't think you would want attack dogs running around your neighborhood without having a leash on them.

[nos351]

quote from the article is below.......seems he said the same thing I am saying. And he sits in with the President? If he doesnt then I am not talking about him. I am talking about the ones who have the Presidents ear and sit across from the table from him. If they didnt tell the President about needing overwhelming force then they are incompetent in my book.

"amounted to a stinging broadside against top U.S. military and civilian leaders"

[nos351]

I know George is loving this..
And in regards to Stormin Norman?

[O.C White]

I know George is loving this..
And in regards to Stormin Norman?

I answered this question up above, so I guess I will put it in text you can see it:


HE WOULD DO THE SAME THING ANY CIVILIAN LEADER WOULD TELL HIM

We didn't want to go into Fallujah, but the civilians and a few other military leaders wanted us, matter of fact said we were reluctant(i.e scared in my opinion) to into Fallujah. Well we proved who was scared, the civilians who are in charge and can't stand a little hail, fire, and brimstone.

[nos351]

And I will post the question again for you to answer.

Do you think we would still be in the position we are in if Shwarzkopf was running the show? a yes or no answer please.

[O.C White]

YES HE WOULD DO WHAT HIS CIVILIAN LEADERS TOLD HIM TO DO

Does that answer your question. Only part of my answer that changed was yes.

[nos351]

I disagee, but maybe I hold him in a higher light than I should.

[O.C White]

I disagee, but maybe I hold him in a higher light than I should.


You can disagree all you want. If a civilian tells him to back off, guess what he is going to do? Back off.

You can hold him in any light you want but facts are the facts. Now how about an aswer to my question:

YOU THINK THE MILITARY SHOULD SEPERATE FROM CIVILIAN CONTROL?

[nos351]

No, but the military(Joint Chiefs) should inform the President of the requirements to do what the President requires of them. If you need 1 million men then say it. Dont tell him what he wants to hear.

[George Klass]

The Gunny has mentioned this to me on several occasions, this thing about the public being so outraged about the four contractors getting killled, and that's why the public became so against this war, etc. I don't remember any big hue and cry from the public when that happened. Sure, the public was pissed off, but I don't recall any "we got to get out of there" at that time. Now, Carl was over there when that happened and I don't know where he got that info, and I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I can't recall the public making that incident the "make it or break it" deal that Carl keeps talking about.

[nos351]

So who told the civilians that the military could turn Iraq into a peaceful democracy? The military had no input?

[O.C White]

1 million men and women in Iraq? You civilians would have a fit if the military ask for that in Iraq. So save me the "if's".

[O.C White]

So who told the civilians that the military could turn Iraq into a peaceful democracy? The military had no input?

Sure wasn't the military. Show me where any military person in his right mind would want to deal with politic's like that.

[nos351]

your the overwhelming force guru....so how many men would it take.

[O.C White]

The Gunny has mentioned this to me on several occasions, this thing about the public being so outraged about the four contractors getting killled, and that's why the public became so against this war, etc. I don't remember any big hue and cry from the public when that happened. Sure, the public was pissed off, but I don't recall any "we got to get out of there" at that time. Now, Carl was over there when that happened and I don't know where he got that info, and I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I can't recall the public making that incident the "make it or break it" deal that Carl keeps talking about.

George, it was there. When they drug and hung the contractors from that bridge in Fallujah, everyone was saying how it reminded them of Somalia and they didn't want to see that again.

At least that is how it was said on the news channel's over there. We had the major 3 news channels reporting it on CNN, Foxnews, and MSNBC.

[nos351]

So the joint chiefs said no Mr President we cannot control Iraq?

[O.C White]

So the joint chiefs said no Mr President we cannot control Iraq?

I get a strange feeling your badgering is from someone pulling your strings. You a puppet? Sure reads that way.

Anyway, read General Conway's report again. Read the book No True Glory by Bing West. You will get the answers.

Remember you civilians do not want the military operating independently. At least that is what you said in a post above.