Something really strange in Iraq

[O.C White]

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but have you really paid close attention to where the U.S forces are, and how they are layed out? You have the Marine Corps in the Sunni triangle, protecting Sunni's from Shia death squads, and AQI, and you have the U.S Army in Baghdad protecting the Shia from Sunni death squads, and AQI?

I was reading an article from a Marine in the Sunni Triangle and it really touched a nerve about this situation:

The Sheik repeatedly emphasized his interest in working with the Marines in order to protect his tribe against the Shia. Next to halting AQI’s brutal terror campaign against the Sunni tribes, the largest worry in Anbar Province is that Shia -- a generic term ranging from Iranians to the Prime Minister Maliki’s government in Baghdad -- will stamp out the Sunni in Anbar.

Then you have this going on:

An additional complication for Capt Broekhuizen and his Marines is the nationalistic Party of Islam. This faction is made up of old-regime Sunni army soldiers who have no religious interest, but want the American invaders out. This group does not target civilians, but does not resist AQI either.

Complicated times over there for sure. This isn't Vietnam when you have American forces on opposites sides as I see it. This is a whole new genre here, and maybe this is why thing's are so complicated over there.

[George Klass]

But Gunny, who is going to be protecting me from the polititions in Washington, DC that can't spend my tax money fast enough? A billion dollars every 8 hours and 20 minutes.

[O.C White]

George

screw the politico's, they have done enough to all of us both sides. I am concerned with this one branch of our forces on one side, and another branch on another side.

Has this ever happened in history? I don't think it has, and this is very disturbing. This could get tragic with a simple slip.

[George Klass]

You and I talked about this the other night if you recall and I reminded you that if we chose up sides between the Sunnis or the Shiites, we were going to be in trouble. It looks like we are trying to choose both sides which as you say, is going to put us in trouble. One way or the other Gunny, it's goin' to be trouble. Is that what the new strategy is going to be about, the US Marine Corp fighting against the US Army? What a fuckin' mess.

[nos351]

They are gettiing ready to divide the country if the surge doesnt work as I eluded to in another one of the many threads. But what do I know.

[O.C White]

George,

I hope not, if it comes down to that, then I would even call for an immediate redrawal. I am not talking some long drawn out 6-8 month thing. You tell our boys we are leaving this mess to these idiots because they want us fighting each other, they will be glad to come home.

On the other hand, maybe it is time to divide Iraq into 3 states Kurds to the north, Sunni's in the middle, and Shiites in the south. Put up some type of U.N border guard(let them earn their money for a change) both north and south of the Sunni's and get it over with.

Honestly I do not like the ideal of losing our foothold in the middle east also. I think the guy from Iran finally looked up and noticed "hey I am surrounded"

[George Klass]

The thing about trying to divide the country into thirds that would be a REAL issue is that the oil is not spread out evenly in Iraq. One third would get the oil and the other two thirds wouldn't. Can you say "more civil war"?

[O.C White]

The thing about trying to divide the country into thirds that would be a REAL issue is that the oil is not spread out evenly in Iraq. One third would get the oil and the other two thirds wouldn't. Can you say "more civil war"?

I think the oil is pretty spread out over there. I seen wells burning from Safwan Iraq which is down near the Kuwait and Iraq border, to the Sunni Triangle. I know there is oil up near the Kurds because the Turks fear the Kurds getting their own state. I say screw the Turks.

[George Klass]

Gunny, I think that over the next year or 18 months, it's going to become obvious to even the most devout military thinker or die hard war proponent that there is no possible U.S. strategy that will fix the Iraq issues short of us getting the hell out of there and letting the citizens of Iraq settle it between themselves. It won't be pretty, it won't be neat, but we can't fix it for them, never could, never will.

[Ed-vancedEngines]

Carl,
All I kow is by reading news and watching Tv, but I do read news from all over the globe to get a better balanced view of what is going on. I also get a biased view from one of my recently returned friends that served as a body guard for US Department of Defense Officials in Baghdad. He was an instructor with a Group called Blackwater before and while he was there he worked for Blackwater.

From what I can loosely understand is that in Baghdad our troops in some areas near what they call The Green Zone are workng with predominately Shia in the civilian police and military to try to protect and keep order against Sunni Militias, and tons of Sunni Independents.

In Outlying areas but still Baghdad, where there are heavier Sunni population our US Military is working with locals to find and protect them against Shia radicals that are organised better.

In the meantime our US Military and US Civillians who are there are continually getting targeted and attacked by haters from both the Shia and the Sunni, no matter where they are.

What a Mess!

Ed

[O.C White]

Gunny, I think that over the next year or 18 months, it's going to become obvious to even the most devout military thinker or die hard war proponent that there is no possible U.S. strategy that will fix the Iraq issues short of us getting the hell out of there and letting the citizens of Iraq settle it between themselves. It won't be pretty, it won't be neat, but we can't fix it for them, never could, never will.

Call me crazy, been called worse, but George I still believe there is a chance there. Everything has to be talked about though from the worse to the best. I am not going to point any fingers at the media(now I know that is a shock) but the folks on the beltway are not helping matters.

Let's take a look at what some of them want:

They want to send people to Iraq who have not been yet. Bad mistake first off, and second if you want to send people who have not been, let's just shoot them now and get it over with. You need experienced folks taking the new guy over. The only new guy's we have that have not been to Iraq are in basic training, and their respective MOS school.

2nd they are saying they want them properly equiped to go there. #-4 years ago we didn't see IED's, and mortar tubes mounted in the back of pickup's as problems, now we do. You modify the rules of engagement on the arty guy's, and the snipers, and that problem will disappear.

Now that is just an outsider looking in who was inside at once.

[George Klass]

I was talking to a soldier the other day who had just returned from duty in Iraq and he told me something I didn't realize. He was in an intelligence unit and he told me that as new troops arrive, they bring thier own intelligence units with them, and the guys that know what to look for in the existing inteligence units are shuffled back. There was very little if any transfer of intelligence between the departing units and the new units. Is this something that you can confirm?

About the oil and how it's spread out in Iraq. http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/security/esar/esar_bigpic.htm

A good map. You will notice that there is a huge reserve in the South near Al Basrah, not much around Baghdad and then another large reserve up North near Kirkuk. Also notice that there are no tanker terminals anywhere but the South, meaning that each area (except the South) would have to rely on the pipelines. I can see wars being fought over who gets to use the pipelines too, and how much to charge for their use, etc.

[O.C White]

I was talking to a soldier the other day who had just returned from duty in Iraq and he told me something I didn't realize. He was in an intelligence unit and he told me that as new troops arrive, they bring thier own intelligence units with them, and the guys that know what to look for in the existing inteligence units are shuffled back. There was very little if any transfer of intelligence between the departing units and the new units. Is this something that you can confirm?

About the oil and how it's spread out in Iraq. http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/security/esar/esar_bigpic.htm

A good map. You will notice that there is a huge reserve in the South near Al Basrah, not much around Baghdad and then another large reserve up North near Kirkuk. Also notice that there are no tanker terminals anywhere but the South, meaning that each area (except the South) would have to rely on the pipelines. I can see wars being fought over who gets to use the pipelines too, and how much to charge for their use, etc.

The first part. I can't confirm what the Army is doing but I know in Marine Corps unit's, we have a month turnover where we do the left seat right seat changeover. We share as much as possible. Points of Contact, sheik tribal leaders, Imans, danger points, check points, you name it.

Good point for once George, the pipelines would need protection, I am surprised no one has ever took a shot at the Alaska pipeline. How do we protect it?

[George Klass]

The Alaska pipeline. I guess the only way to protect it would be with the military, except that all the U.S. military is somewhere else in the world.

[Ed-vancedEngines]

I would imagine that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police watch over it.

I am also wondering if the oil we get from Canada is sent by a Pipeline too? Supposedly Canada is the US' Chief oil supplier even more than any Arab or S American country suppiles. Why can't we just team up with the Canadaians and forget about all the other foriegn oil?

If Canada and the US, including Alaska would partner and open up some of heir capped wells and get them pumping, and send none outside of the Americas, we would maybe not even need those Arab reserves.

I heard that Russia is maybe richer in reserves than most of the other countries are too. BUT according to bible the richest oil reserve is right in the spot where the Islam world considers the most holy spot. The place they call Mecca is maybe the richest spot in the world, ut I doubt they will ever drill there.

Ed

[O.C White]

So since the Shiites are the ones calling the shots right now with PM Maliki, and you have Marines in the Sunni triangle protecting Sunni's from Shiites, and AQI what do you tell or do to the Marines the first time they blaze down on Shiites coming into the Sunni triangle trying to start stuff? What do they do? Who protects them?

[Ed-vancedEngines]

Carl,
You don't already know the answer?

If it isn't another Grunt or Troop, Groundpounder etc. It is NO ONE!

That is the one thing that the Shia and Sunni will unite about is to get rid of the Infidels on their soil.

The Military Fighting, man or woman of the US or any Ally is just there doing what a Pentegon and both hoses mostly filled with draft dodgers (not all but most) are deciding from their comfy offices.

The Marine as well as the other Troops will do what they are told that fits within the Terms of Engagement.

Ed

[MrMike990]

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but have you really paid close attention to where the U.S forces are, and how they are layed out? You have the Marine Corps in the Sunni triangle, protecting Sunni's from Shia death squads, and AQI, and you have the U.S Army in Baghdad protecting the Shia from Sunni death squads, and AQI?

I was reading an article from a Marine in the Sunni Triangle and it really touched a nerve about this situation:



Then you have this going on:



Complicated times over there for sure. This isn't Vietnam when you have American forces on opposites sides as I see it. This is a whole new genre here, and maybe this is why thing's are so complicated over there.


Carl, complex is an understatement. Here's the 4 horsemen of this conflict.

1. Shia vs Sunni
2. Sunni vs Shia
3. Combating Insurgents
4. Aqieda

[MrMike990]

So since the Shiites are the ones calling the shots right now with PM Maliki, and you have Marines in the Sunni triangle protecting Sunni's from Shiites, and AQI what do you tell or do to the Marines the first time they blaze down on Shiites coming into the Sunni triangle trying to start stuff? What do they do? Who protects them?


http://www.ausa.org/pdfdocs/ArmyMag/Feb07/Trebilcock.pdf

[Shelton_Barrs]

Personally I think we turned over Iraq way to early. We should have kept control and declared martial law. Anyone steps out of line, they get popped, Sunni, Shia or Kurdish wouldn't matter. Now we are caught in the middle. Not a fun place to be under the best of conditions, which Iraq is far from that. Now, someone I think has to try and deal with the extremes on all sides. Not going to be easy and no way my answers would ever be implemented. Some how, some way the gloves need to be taken off the Marines and the Army and let them do what they do best. No need for a surge, just let the ones that are there take care of business. Without a change in the rules of engagement it doesnt matter how many we send in my opinion.