VP fuels vs other brands (going to blowthrough SC)

[1KWIK72]

I am looking at changing my combo up for next season. Currently I run a 14:1 NA 18° SBC that makes around 800hp and have been using the Citgo 110. I am thinking of dropping the compression to 9:1 and sticking a F1R on it and going with a blow through carb. I am looking to make 1100-1200hp It will most likely be air to air intercooled as I dont really want to go through the hassle and expense of an Air/Water intercooler. I originally had looked into the idea of the A/W intercooler and was told I could get by running 110 (wasn't told what brand) When I called Procharger they said I could make my HP goals without an intercooler and recommended I run VP C16. It looks like thats the fuel everyone uses I would just like to know ahead of time if thats the best way to go. If so what is the typical cost per 55gal drum for the C16?

Thanks
Craig

[Chris Uratchko]

I wouldn't use anything Citgo as it is owned by tyrant dictator who hates the US and everything it stands for...

Just my humble opinion.

[Pooch565]

Amen brother. I did talk to Craig. Hopefully when he decides which way to go, SC or Big Chief Naturally Aspirated, we will do business. Thanks for the questions.

Jason

[Ron Clevenger]

Jason, just my personal testimony.

I've reviewed about ever race gas available and to the best of my ability none meet the specs that C-16 have for a blow gas application. I'm not just talking octane, look closely at the distillation numbers which are very important in how a fuel handles the mechanical heat of the blower.

Lord knows we all want to save money and if I could buy a comparable gas at a lower price it would be in my shop.
That's my experience anyway...............
Blessings.......Ron Clevenger.

[1KWIK72]

I wouldn't use anything Citgo as it is owned by tyrant dictator who hates the US and everything it stands for...

Just my humble opinion.

Glad to see everyone is on the same page. I think those were the exact words Jason used lol Thanks for the input guys it looks like I am leaning more and more towards the blow through deal

Craig

[Mike Coffey]

I run a 11to1 compression motor and put over 22 pounds of boost to it non intercooled with no problems using VP C-16. Good stuff!

[Zeke1]

I run a 11to1 compression motor and put over 22 pounds of boost to it non intercooled with no problems using VP C-16. Good stuff!

I didn't think that was even possible :confused: have you ever had a temp gauge in the intake charge tube? if so how high was the temp?

[68Bird]

Hell, there's a guy I know (Pooch knows him too) with an F2 that runs 25-30# boost without an intercooler. Ask Pooch how much boost he runs non-intercooled on C16. Don't know if either knows what their intake air temps are though.

Craig

[Zeke1]

I know a guy that runs a small blower F1 I think on a SBF non intercooled and the inlet temp was through the roof and I don't think he ran more than 15 or 20 pounds but it was FI I know BT are better for cooling intake charges but does it make that much of a difference?


I always thought if the intake charge temp got too hot it would detonate and distroy itself.

[Mike Coffey]

I didn't think that was even possible :confused: have you ever had a temp gauge in the intake charge tube? if so how high was the temp? Sorry , no temp readings, but the plugs are not even close to showing any sign of detonation. Alot of it has to do with using the right plugs,fuel,e-vac pump and boost timing control. We are going to put 26 pounds of boost to it next year and it should make around 1000 hp with a mild 355ci. SBC. I have heard of people running 12.5 to 1 and running 30 to 36 pound of boost intercooled.

[Mike Coffey]

I know a guy that runs a small blower F1 I think on a SBF non intercooled and the inlet temp was through the roof and I don't think he ran more than 15 or 20 pounds but it was FI I know BT are better for cooling intake charges but does it make that much of a difference?


I always thought if the intake charge temp got too hot it would detonate and distroy itself. Your buddy with the F-1 is probably spinning it pretty hard to make that kind of boost. The harder you spin your blower the more chance of detonation. I slowed my Gen.2 F2 down as far as I could with the biggest bower pully they make when I was first starting out and it still made 17 pounds of boost. Also is he running a e-vac. pump? That makes a big diffrence and yes FI to BTC is a big diffrence in some apps.

[Pooch565]

Since I went to my C&S Aerosol carb, I haven't had any problems. Non intercooled, 30psi, 25 degrees of timing, 8.5 to 1 compression, 6800rpm, C16. I have never logged intake temps, but I'm sure they are up there. 300 or so. But the carb will pull approx. 100degrees. C16 doesn't even start to go to vapor until 214 degrees. Thats why it is bad ass non intercooled blower fuel. I have seen F1r renegade cars with no intercooler and Fuel injection get as high as 400 degrees. But it's like Mike said, they have to turn the crap out of those blowers, and that will make more heat. Oh, I've been 8.50's about 160 at 3500lbs on radials and stock suspension.


Jason

[68Bird]

Your buddy with the F-1 is probably spinning it pretty hard to make that kind of boost. The harder you spin your blower the more chance of detonation. I slowed my Gen.2 F2 down as far as I could with the biggest bower pully they make when I was first starting out and it still made 17 pounds of boost. Also is he running a e-vac. pump? That makes a big diffrence and yes FI to BTC is a big diffrence in some apps.


Mike, please elaborate on the evac pump. Is it because it keeps oil out of the chambers thereby reducing the chance of detonation?

Craig

[Barry]

Hell, there's a guy I know (Pooch knows him too) with an F2 that runs 25-30# boost without an intercooler. Ask Pooch how much boost he runs non-intercooled on C16. Don't know if either knows what their intake air temps are though.

Craig
Hey.....I know that guy too. lol

Running the same tune as Pooch, I see upwards of 30 psi non-intercooled. C-16 is kinda the shit.

[68Bird]

Hey.....I know that guy too. lol

Running the same tune as Pooch, I see upwards of 30 psi non-intercooled. C-16 is kinda the shit.

Uh, oh. :eek: Are your ears burning?

[Mike Coffey]

Mike, please elaborate on the evac pump. Is it because it keeps oil out of the chambers thereby reducing the chance of detonation?

CraigYes Craig, you are pretty much hitting the nail on the head. A good e-vac pump set up is alot of money, but well worth it in a blown or turbo app. Plus, e-vacing your motor should give you around 20 to40 Hp and it helps your motor seal alot better. I would really like to see photos of your motor sometime. Your car looks cool!

[Mike Coffey]

Since I went to my C&S Aerosol carb, I haven't had any problems. Non intercooled, 30psi, 25 degrees of timing, 8.5 to 1 compression, 6800rpm, C16. I have never logged intake temps, but I'm sure they are up there. 300 or so. But the carb will pull approx. 100degrees. C16 doesn't even start to go to vapor until 214 degrees. Thats why it is bad ass non intercooled blower fuel. I have seen F1r renegade cars with no intercooler and Fuel injection get as high as 400 degrees. But it's like Mike said, they have to turn the crap out of those blowers, and that will make more heat. Oh, I've been 8.50's about 160 at 3500lbs on radials and stock suspension.


JasonI have seen Pooch's car win drag radial at one of are Heads Up races in Detroit. That car is NO joke. He is where I want to be when I get my 18 degree motor done.

[1KWIK72]

Hey Mike you building an 18° motor for blow through? Care to share any specifics? When I talked to Jason (Pooch) he sugggested skipping the F1R and going with a F2 non intercooled. I see you run a F2 whats your opinion? I am looking to put my car in the 8.80-8.70 range. It weighs 3190 right now plus whatever the blower would weigh. I currently run a vacuum pump in N/A form. Just curious what kind of ring pack and head gaskets do you run?

[Mike Coffey]

I agree with Jason. A F2 would work great for what you are trying to do. You could run 8's with a mild SBC non intercooled and not really spin the F2 that hard with the right set up. PM me and I would glad to help anyway I can.

[Pooch565]

Shoot, Mike will be deep in the 8's in O7. Especially with that combo. I run the cometic gaskets now and Hellfire rings. I used to run MLS Fel Pro's and they were awsome also. My engine builder really likes the Cometics and thats the way we went this year.

Jason

[68Bird]

Yes Craig, you are pretty much hitting the nail on the head. A good e-vac pump set up is alot of money, but well worth it in a blown or turbo app. Plus, e-vacing your motor should give you around 20 to40 Hp and it helps your motor seal alot better. I would really like to see photos of your motor sometime. Your car looks cool!

Thanks for the compliment.

I have the enhanced 4 vane moroso pump but it won't fit now with the blower so I went back to header evac tubes. I'd have to do some major modding to get it to fit using a mandrel out past the blower pulley. It'd hit the radiator/fans.

Heres a bunch of pics Mike.....

http://rides.webshots.com/album/264930225wSYJYi?start=0

Craig

[Mike Coffey]

Thanks for the compliment.

I have the enhanced 4 vane moroso pump but it won't fit now with the blower so I went back to header evac tubes. I'd have to do some major modding to get it to fit using a mandrel out past the blower pulley. It'd hit the radiator/fans.

Heres a bunch of pics Mike.....

http://rides.webshots.com/album/264930225wSYJYi?start=0

Craig Very COOL Bird!:cool: I hear what you are saying about the drive. Pain in the ass! I had to custom machine mine and machine a e-vac pump mount and make my own alternator brackets and have all the shit line up! I see you also had to notch out your valve cover. Here are a couple photos of my set up.http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q162/coffey1973/IMG_0530.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q162/coffey1973/IMG_0532.jpg

[Barry]

That's a good looking setup Mike. I know what you mean by custom making all your mounts and mandrel. Everything on the front of mine is custom made.........big pain in the ass but well worth it.

[Mike Coffey]

That's a good looking setup Mike. I know what you mean by custom making all your mounts and mandrel. Everything on the front of mine is custom made.........big pain in the ass but well worth it. Thank you. Your motor looks great also. I really like your blower belt guard. Did you make that or did you buy it ? I want one for my motor.

[68Bird]

Thank you. Your motor looks great also. I really like your blower belt guard. Did you make that or did you buy it ? I want one for my motor.

I know your question is way old Mike, but just saw it. Contact Jake at http://www.jakesperformancefabrication.com/ for the belt guard. Top notch work. I was getting one from Jake, but I found out I have no clearance between the blower pulley and hood.

Craig

[Mike Coffey]

I know your question is way old Mike, but just saw it. Contact Jake at http://www.jakesperformancefabrication.com/ for the belt guard. Top notch work. I was getting one from Jake, but I found out I have no clearance between the blower pulley and hood.

CraigThanks!