Wheelie Bars for Outlaw 10.5 Car

[Jim Monson]

Bill,

My wheelie bars are solid, and 55” long. I originally built them to conform to the NSCA Super Street rules. There was really no rule on the length. It was more of a “look” they wanted.

Well, I think my car would work better with a longer set of bars. Let’s throw out the rule book. My car is 3,100lb, runs on 33X10.5 W’s, 101” wheel base, auto trans. How long do you think the wheelie bars should be?

Also, if the bars are real long can I pin them to the axle (vs. bolt on) to make them easier to take off the car. I don’t think I can get the car in the trailer with a super long set of wheelie bars.

[gilsbachracecraft]

i have had alot of luck w/bars from 72-84" depending on the distance between the mounts on the housing(measure and call me).i would not pin them unless you spin up some bushings and weld them to the tabs to increase the surface area on the pin so you don't beat the holes out.eventually your tabs WILL fail

[Jim Monson]

Thanks Bill! I'll measure everything up and let you know.

[noslix]

Jim, just curious how long you ended up with. We're in the same boat with Chip Havemann's outlaw car. When K&B originally built it, they built it with 64" bars to conform to some class that Greathouse was going to run it in. Petty/Lynch have 95" bars on their ride. I'm just wondering what others are doing. I'm thinking we need a minimum of 85". Take care.

[Jim Monson]

I'm still tire kicking but it seems that 80"+ is the way to go. Here's a couple of sets that Bill Gilsbach has done recently.


http://upload2.postimage.org/42487/MontyWB.jpg (http://upload2.postimage.org/42487/photo_hosting.html)

http://upload2.postimage.org/42492/MustangWB.jpg (http://upload2.postimage.org/42492/photo_hosting.html)

[superdave]

NICE LOOKING BARS-
IM GONNA NEED A SET FOR MY TURBOCHARGED OUTLAW 10.5RIDE-

20" FOURLINK CENTERS-
85" LONG......
WHAT'S THE PRICE WITH THE KNURLED TOPS( LEFT LONG AT THE HOUSING TO FIT MY CAR) COMPLETE W/ ROD ENDS ETC...
SLIDERS, BRACING ETC...LIKE IN THE PICTURE POSTED-----

PROBABLY USE WHEEL-EZ WHEELS?

DAVE
843-250-0163

[Jim Monson]

Bill, how long do you think these are? They look looooooooooooong!

http://competitionplus.com/albums/album537/DSB_6181_001.jpg

[gilsbachracecraft]

90 +, i will build em' if you want to fit em'

[beebemotorsports]

Bill
looks like you should just keep them in stock

[Dan Neumann]

We run our 82" Wheelie bars pinned and have for over a year now with no issues as long as you run high strength pins.. We actually broke the rod ends last weekend on a launch but the pins are still holding strong and still fit nice and snug. We run 7.30s with 1.13 60fts on 10.5s so it's not a slug either.. :-D

[Jim Monson]

Thanks for the info Dan. I know the bars will have to come off to fit the car in the trailer. Pinning them on would make life easier but I don't want to degrade performance or safety.

[Jim Monson]

Bill, this is probably the easiest place to send you this info. Here's what I have now for bars. I have also included a couple of pics of the bumper to give you an idea of the clearance.



http://upload2.postimage.org/98145/WheelieBars.jpg (http://upload2.postimage.org/98145/photo_hosting.html)


http://upload2.postimage.org/98149/Milan04_3.jpg (http://upload2.postimage.org/98149/photo_hosting.html)

http://upload2.postimage.org/98151/Bumper.jpg (http://upload2.postimage.org/98151/photo_hosting.html)

[steve hurt]

That is a sweet lookin car....

[Jim Monson]

That is a sweet lookin car....

Thanks!

[beebemotorsports]

That is a sweet lookin car....

Thanks!

here is a pic of jim after the comment from steve hurt
http://www.ausoleil.org/blog/images/articles/20041215121739699_1.jpg

[Jim Monson]

:smt098

[85Camaro]

That is a sweet lookin car....

It really is....You should see it run, it's like it's on a turn table!! You see every side of the car when standing in one place!!! :lol:

[Jim Monson]

I thought those foam blocks in the middle of the track were set up for a slalom course? :smt017

[noslix]

Bill, how long do you think these are? They look looooooooooooong!

http://competitionplus.com/albums/album537/DSB_6181_001.jpg

They're 95".

[ProCar]

The longer the bar the softer the hit on the tires as they make contact. We have two Outlaw/Super Street 10.5 type cars going 1.11-1.12 with 60" bars, and have build 84" bars for teams that felt they needed them. It's an interesting topic, and one that has as much to do with knowledge of shocks and bar wall thicknesses of the bars as anything. There is no magic length, just a magic combination for any given car. Look at B GLiddens car, short bars, very very quick- granted it is very light, but it makes the long bar theory look goofy in the staging lanes.

It also should be mentioned that after a certain length the bars need to be 'strapped' or given the wraparound treatment to avoid the upper bar having uncontrolled movement, or flexing in the wrong direction. That adds to stiffness and negates some of the advantage of the long bar as far as absorption goes. We ran through four sets of bars on our 1.02-1.04 car last year figuring that out... Your chassis builder should be abkle to help.

[Jim Monson]

Thanks for the replies guys! It does seem that some cars like to jump on the bars and others don't seem to use them as much. I guess I'm thinking that the longer bars could keep me from unloading the tires and possibly save a run the would be aborted otherwise. I need all of the help I can get. I also need not only a fast race car, but a fast and consistent race car. It seems the moral of the story is that longer bars won't hurt.

Here's another one for you guys. When the bars get long like this should titanium be considered? Titanium offers a weight save. I'm assuming it comes with a cost hit?

[ProCar]

F titanium. Very springy and you have to carry enough weight anyway. Big ($$$$$) Remember, longer can be more forgiving, but once it's strapped, it gets stiffer again. Just a thought.... I personally think some of the long long bars on outlaw 10.5 cars show a lack of chassis set up knowledge. They just make it easier without really getting into the nitty gritty of shocks and springs.... Do YOU want that much weight hanging off your housing????

[DERTY]

Jim, we were down at Jerry Bickel's shop. They had a set of 85" Titanium bars there and they definitely were half the weight of the 85" bars we just made for my car. At a cost of $3000 you can order up a set in titanium. They looked incredible too, just like every car that was in there it was picture perfect.

Pro's, they last a lot longer than moly due to their abilty to spring back to shape. Very light for the length. Con's, simply expensive and doing it yourself has some draw backs in simply designing them because the wall thickness has a lot to do with their behavior. They also would not ellaborate at all on the wall thickness combinations they use between the upper and lower tubes. They did tell us straight up that they did a lot of testing on wall thickness and found a combination that worked very well. Welding titanium is very much like welding stainless. It was surprisingly easy. They showed us how they shield the titanium so that it doesn't get contaminated without having to go the extra mile of welding it up in a shielding box. Beyond that it's not too bad, except for the cost.

So, you can read into that and figure out that it took them several tries to get the combination worked out. For 3k, you can buy a set and report back the wall thickness to us! I tried finding sources for the tube nuts and caster boxes as well as the tubing. Buying all the parts and making it yourself or buying them already welded to your size was very close to a wash.

[Shawn Morrell]

I run a single wheeled wheely bar, just wondering why more guys don't run them? Also mine are two piece so I can unbolt about 2 feet of the wheely bar so it will fit in the trailer. They are also pinned. I also use the wheely bar to jack up the back end of the car, alot easier than trying to get the jack under the car..

[Jim Monson]

I figured that when the bars got that long weight would become an issue. Thanks for the info!

[ray jr]

all this talk about length, what do you guys think a good starting point would be on setting up how high the bars should be off the ground. my car is a outlaw 10.5 car 3000lbs. with 33x10.5's on it. thanks for any input.

[THE SHOE]

most cars start with roughly 4.5 to4.75 from the center of the wheelie wheel bolt to the ground on level ground of coarse..

[Monty Mikho]

Start high and work low. Adjust front shocks and limiters to control lift speed and height. We usually start around 6.5" bolt center.. work the front end out then lower the wheelie bars accordingly. You dont wanna smash the wheelie bars in the ground as this will upset the chassis and possibly unload the tires. The only way to learn the right height it by testing.. That was on a 62" bar.. Im sure things will change with them being longer now..